If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

I have a child. And it's not selfish.
Why can't you make that decision for yourself.
People just say ridiculous things.

So basically not having children is selfish, but also having just one child is selfish because you're denying them a sibling, but having more than 2 is selfish because it's terrible for the environment and you can't give them enough individual attention, and having IVF on the NHS is selfish because taxpayers are paying for it, and using a surrogate is selfish because you're hiring a woman's body for cash, and having children in your 20s is selfish because you're not financially secure, but having children in your 40s is selfish because you'll be too tired to run around after them and might die when they're still young.

Oh and abortion is selfish but don't you dare have a child that you can't cope with, that's selfish too!

That's misogyny for you.

If this were true that people who don't have children are selfish, it would naturally follow that people who only have a 'normal' amount of children are also somewhat selfish.

The least selfish of all by far would be those who have a minimum of 10 children - even if they don't have anywhere near enough time, money or attention to spend with/give all of them, and they end up missing out on what children with only 0/1/2 siblings enjoy in life - living, as they do, with their 'still quite selfish really' parents.

Having children is both selfish and unselfish.

Not having children is both selfish and unselfish.

I think people have children as they want to have children not to give back to society. Live your own life - do whatever makes you happy. Human beings are inherently selfish.

Yep. Sounds about right. Comes down to the old if you're a woman whatever you choose is wrong line again.

You could argue that wanting something is selfish - a big house, a posh car, fancy holidays etc. So having a child or children because you want to, is the same.

The difference is, when those children are born, you have to be completely unselfish because a helpless child is dependent on you and your needs and wants are way down the list.

there is literally no winning.

Not having kids at all = selfish
Having kids late in life = selfish and irresponsible as you'll be older when they grow up and likely die earlier (and not be around to provide free babysitting for grandkids)
Having kids very young = irresponsible and slutty
Having kids as a single parent = irresponsible
Having kids and receiving benefits = irresponsible and scrounger

Then today I saw an article on FB about someone who had sacked an employee for getting pregnant again soon after coming back from maternity leave (and, rightly, had to pay out after going through employment tribunal). Loads of comments on there, depressingly at least half from women, blaming her for having children so close together, saying she was selfish, 'loose' (from one charming individual), should just stay at home to bring up her kids f she wanted them not take jobs from people who would commit to them (with what money?), lazy, etc.

So even being in a committed relationship and having children with your partner while working full time (this woman was cleaning in the middle of summer at 39weeks pregnant!) is somehow wrong.

Basically being a woman = wrong, no matter what you do. So why not do what makes YOU happy and fuck everyone else

it made them face up to the fact that they had also had a choice. That having babies isn’t compulsory

💯

I'm selfish because I had no children in my 20s and 30s but had a child in my 40s.

I actually spent some of my 20s and 30s doing things I enjoyed in my free time which includes helping people who were children and young adults. (Oddly the only parents involved have grown up children.)

Oh and the child free teachers, coaches and volunteers I had as a child were all sooo selfish. They are the ones who spent extra time helping disadvantaged kids as they had it. Some did like me have children in their 40s, while others remained/remain child free.

I think this is horseshit, but my mum thinks this.

The argument isn't that not having children is itself selfish. The idea is rather that people who are selfish don't have children because they're too selfish to look after someone else and put someone else first in the way you need to if you choose to have children. So it's not that not having children is itself selfish, but that not having children is an indication that someone is selfish.

It's not selfish in the least! They're probably jealous of the lifestyle

I'd only heard it the other way around, that having children is selfish.

I guess your damned if you do, damned if you don't. As per usual someone has to find something to be awful about other people..guessing it's so they can feel morally superior and find solace in a choice they made but regret😅

Yes! You goddamn well better have one child at 30 and another at 32. And you better have a good job to provide for them, but also make sure you have days off with them during the week. You need to be married and have lived with him first for a few years before a short engagement. You better have travelled and formed strong friendships first. And you absolutely must ensure that their father is the type of man who will never turn nto an abuser or a cheat or a workaholic or shirk housework. It's up to you to work this out, and your fault if you fuck it up.

Anything else is selfish as fuck and also your own fault for "popping out a bunch of kids" in suboptimal circumstances and ruining your own life, as well as theirs, and also ruining society and the planet to boot.

Welcome to the patriarchy.

If this is the thread I think it is, I don’t think she even is childfree - she just said she didn’t want kids in her 20s. This is a klaxon for all the trad, alt-right adjacent crowd who congregate on Twitter, for whom women having children young and being SAHMs and living on a homestead while not eating seed oils or whatever is part of a wider political ideology. Probably mixed with people who did have children in their 20s, and feel judged by her original tweet.

There’s no point trying to extrapolate this incident into what the normal people in your real life think about the fact you’ve made different life choices (the honest answer is they probably don’t think about it much, if at all), because this is frankly just weirdos on the internet.

This post wins the internet today.

No. I think the opposite.

Having children is the ultimate selfish act, because we all have children because we want to. There is never a need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this in the way those Twitter people mean it. It's not a bad thing, because children are not an outcome that has a negative affect on other people (mostly, anyway!).

But I guess under those circumstances, any action taken purely to serve yourself as an individual is selfish.

Antidote for me is to not use Twitface and any other kind ill informed social gossip garbage.

I learn all about having children via MN, if the jury is out, we made a good personal choice not to get involved, but happily love all the little ones in our extended family😁

There are many ways to contribute to society beyond having children. Neither choice is selfish - they're just different.

Surely it's the norm for women their twenties to be focussing on building their career, and finding the right partner. Not leaping into having kids. It's not 1942?!
I think it's much more common now for women to wait till they're thirties or even early 40s. I remember feeling a bit different as my mum was a lot older than the others in the 80s school playground. But I don't think it would look very unusual at all now.
And of course, choosing not to have kids isn't in the least bit selfish. Surely producing children you do not actually wish for, nor afford and will only parent in a half arsed fashion is a much, much more selfish endeavour?

Children are how authoritarian regimes - of any stripe - get to control the masses.

If you can rise above the frothing and take note of who is saying what, things make a lot more sense.

Being childfree, WFH, and not needing to work to survive are all kryptonite to the politics of envy.

Exactly this.

The only right way to do life! Travel in your 20s, carve out your career and have magical experiences before marrying the love of your life in your late 20s and buying a large house. Have 2 children at 30 and 32 (1 boy and 1 girl obviously) and work part time, school hours only in a job that pays £100k, because you MUST be around for the children but you also cannot give up your financial independence. Of course hubby is wonderful and does 50% of housework and childcare too.

Anything else is SELFISH!!!!

This

Personally, I think it’s selfish to have children you can’t adequately afford. Many families aren’t net contributors, which means they take more in benefits and services, than they put back in tax contributions. Scientists climate predictions remain conclusively gloomy. I fundamentally don’t understand the urge for a large family, I also think they should be taxed more for wear and tear to the planet/services etc. We need to put an end to lifelong benefit claimants who see a family as a meal ticket.