If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

The things threatening the future human race are not lack of children being born

I know that but it is the reason for the current sudden moral panic from people who have either done nothing to support women and children or who have actively done harm to them

There is definitely a demographic in the US who feels strongly that women need to be mothers and are actually deviant if they are not fulfilling their biologic destiny Women who choose to be child-free are seen as selfish because they choose to prioritize their own fun over the primary work of women. And just in case you don't believe this is true, look at the comments of the possible next vice president. This is a scary place right now.

Most people are selfish, regardless of the life choices they make. I always find the debates about selfishness/selflessness to be absolutely bizarre. All humans do things mostly for themselves and their own needs, and that's... normal? I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be outraged.

What I actually think is a big character flaw is not minding one's business. Which is definitely manifested by labelling the reproduction or non-reproduction choices of others as selfish.

Adopting or fostering a child is the most non selfish way of parenting. Yet these parents are often looked down on and isolated.
Whilst I don’t think having birth kids is selfish, some of the entitlement and attitudes I see is selfish and shows a complete lack of self awareness and humility.

Never thought not having children is selfish. I had three children and felt I was the one being selfish because I wanted them.
If you don’t want children, that’s fine with me.

Nothing selfish in it 🤷🏼‍♀️

having children is a choice and it is a difficult one to keep at that. People that don’t want it, shouldn’t be shame. People that want them, should be supported.

Wow. Wasn’t aware of that.

why do you think it is?

It's like a massive conspiracy of denial and subsequent punishment for stepping out of the delusion.

As a parent, I now feel it's selfish for many to have had children. Becoming incapacitated and unable to care for them properly, passing on inherited conditions unknowingly. That feels very cruel to me.

It's the opposite of selfish not to procreate. I agree it's often misogynists and their cronies who seem dead set on calling it selfish.

Absolutely not selfish. I’ve told my daughter to not bother think long and hard.

I suppose it is that being a parent involves a good amount of sacrifice and care for others. At a job interview once, I was talking to one of the other candidates and she said she never intended to have children because she was too "selfish." But she said it as if she was proud of that. She got the job. Since then, in my profession I have been told by many people, especially men, that I have to be "more selfish" if I want to get ahead. Selfishness is not a characteristic that I value or want to be. My children are not just a sacrifice of my time and career prospects (which they are), they are beautiful people who I want to spend my time with. They are the most important thing in my life but I also care about my job and my public life. You don't have to choose. You really should not have to choose.

Now, of course, the whole thing has become a stupid culture war so you have to hate non-parents for being selfish and parents for being smug, or whatever. We muddle through and make our own decisions and we are the ones who live with the consequences (me, a good but not brilliant career and someone else, a great career and no kids). C'est la vie.

And so often men get women pregnant (effectively trapped) and that's when the abuse starts.

Why are there non-mums on MumsNet? Am I missing something? (I’m new, so I might be…. )

It’s not selfish.. having my child wasn’t a selfless act I did for the good of anyone but myself… so how can choosing the opposite be selfish? Anyone who says it is, is either jealous or a misogynist.

Lots of reasons. Off the top of my head;

infertility support/advice
ivf advice/support
theres a section for people who don’t have children
they might be midwives, doctors, work with children in different capacities, teachers etc and want to help parents
they might have a dog or a cat and want advice
to discuss their relationship
to get cooking advice or housekeeping advice

My friend who is childfree and works with children who have SEN is on here to help parents and advised me to come on here for advice and support after being raped and I received so much support I stayed and found other sections of the site I love.

Thus question is asked very regularly - surpassed only in frequency by "Why are there men on MN?"

MN has grown massively since it began and, if you explore the forum more, you'll very quickly realise that only a very small proportion of the topics discussed on MN are purely relevant to mums/parents.

So, so many topics on here are of potential interest to anybody ' regardless of sex or parent/non-parent status.

They're not called scare quotes, you Silly Goose. They're called inverted commas - sometimes people use them when they're writing to emphasise a word in a sentence. Although, interestingly Google tells me that some people can be confused by them so perhaps I shouldn't have used them here, I can see it's tricky for you.

If you didn't want the burden of having kids, but are happy to let other people carry that burden for you so that you can take advantages of a younger workforce in the future... I think there's a word for that.

I don't think really anything about you, this isn't about whether or not you care what I think. Things are or aren't true regardless of your feelings about it.

Is anyone uncomfortable with the language used by some posters to discuss children? Calling them a burden sounds awful to me.

Also when childfree women don’t want children they’re told they’re missing out on true love and joy and when they say they’re fine with that they’re told they’re selfish for letting others carry the burden… If your child brings you the only real love and joy you’ve ever known it doesn’t sound like a burden, it sounds like an amazing thing and something the child should be cherished for.

If you didn't want the burden of having kids, but are happy to let other people carry that burden for you so that you can take advantages of a younger workforce in the future... I think there's a word for that.

That makes it sound like having children is an obligation women (not men - this is never aimed at them, the ones who risk nothing and often commit nothing in procreating) are required to fulfill, and that we're shirkers if we don't.

I remember friends from a country in Africa explaining to me that they believe gay men are selfish, as they are choosing to be gay in order to live a carefree life without the responsibility of having children and a family, and contributing to their society. They told me this was the widespread perception in the country. I was shocked at the time but then it made sense as I learned more about homophobia in various countries. It’s very concerning to see the same accusation being made about women now.

It’s a new culture war issue - powered by countries like Russia, and some far-right and evangelical groups - and it’s vital women don’t let it come between us.

I’m a Mum of two. I don’t think it’s selfish at all. It is selfish to have children then continue to live as if you don’t. (Extreme example, I know, but I have a family member who did exactly that and her children are now in care 😞).
I wasn’t maternal at all until the minute I held my DS and I absolutely love being a Mum but I definitely don’t regard people who choose not have a family as selfish.

I know I'd never have made a good parent. I don't like children, full stop. I find babies entirely unappealing. I never wanted to be with a man, and would never have had the money to raise a child on my own, so even if I'd wanted one, it would not have been practicable. And now, having done years of caring for my mother, I can confidently say that's not a role I would ever have taken on by choice, whatever the age of the recipient.

The only creatures that stir anything like maternal feelings in me are cats. I'll take my twenty-year care commitment there, thanks.

They're not called scare quotes, you Silly Goose.

Silly Goose?

Really?

And yes, they are scare quotes.

Although, interestingly Google tells me that some people can be confused by them so perhaps I shouldn't have used them here, I can see it's tricky for you.

Wow, what a nice, kind unselfish person you are.

If you didn't want the burden of having kids, but are happy to let other people carry that burden for you so that you can take advantages of a younger workforce in the future... I think there's a word for that.

I think there's plenty of words for that. I'm a woman making full use of the choices available to me in the contemporary world, choices not available to women in past generations and still not available to women in certain parts of the world.

I don't think really anything about you, this isn't about whether or not you care what I think. Things are or aren't true regardless of your feelings about it.

Do you have any idea how incredibly pompous and ridiculous you sound?

Things don't become 'true' because a random poster on the interwebs said so.

Is anyone uncomfortable with the language used by some posters to discuss children? Calling them a burden sounds awful to me.

I used that word, and I stand by it.

I don't mean that children in general are a burden, but that for me, hypothetical children would be. That's why I chose not to have any. Obviously a much loved and wanted child is certainly not a burden to their parents.

Sorry, I didn’t mean about hypothetical children, I mean about existing children. As in ‘childfree women have opted out of the burden and I am currying that burden on their behalf and that makes them selfish’.