If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

Yes. It’s one thing us childfree women saying ‘Children would be a burden, not a joy to me, so I’m not having them’, and it’s another thing parents saying ‘My children are a burden.’

OK I see what you mean.

Yes, it is odd to speak of much loved children as a 'burden'. As we've discussed above, almost everyone who has children, at least in countries like Britain, did so because they actively chose to. Doing what you wanted to do hardly equates to carrying some great burden on behalf of future generations.

If they are American, they are probably trumpers.
They have a bee in their bonnet about Kamala Harris being childless. It will be no country to have children in, if he gets in.

It’s incredible people have more of an issue with KH not having children than they do the things DT has said about one of his children 🤮

If we must call each other names on here, I do prefer the likes of 'silly goose' rather than some of the more 'earthy' insults.

Very Malory Towers!

I know childless and people with children who have died. Some had short illnesses while other had much longer ones.

All who made friends with other people were and are looked after in their old age. The ones with children, children often didn't bother helping even though they inherited most of the deceases estate.

Both myself and other half did all our parenting between the age of 6 and 16. A mix of coercion and instinct to look after younger siblings and at times 100% responsible for them. Childhood was a misery and that lead to an instinctive but mostly unconscious desire to not create new human beings who will also suffer like we did, not rational but this is how the sub conscious works. Also consciously not keen to have children after already having done the parenting, parenting that had no reward and in fact all our younger siblings have held us in some sort of contempt, as if we were outsiders. They also are adamant that we are selfish for not having children and that their children are subsidising us, we that are making less demands on society, the NHS and schools etc. In fact we are soon to change our will to exclude them all and give it to charity.

I hear you. I was a mini-parent, not just to my younger siblings but to my parents, from the age of eight. It turned me off the whole idea of having children, because I was weighed down with nappies and weaning and homework from far too young. Family life was no fun. My siblings are all childfree. I had one child at 40 because I chose not to let my childhood define me to that extent.

I hear you. Very similar story for me. Spent my childhood parenting and once I finally had my freedom, too right I want to hang onto it rather than start at the beginning again with my own kids (though as it happens I’m infertile anyway).

My siblings are also really entitled - constantly telling me I have so much money (I don’t - I’m the only single one and their household incomes all at least double mine) and it’d be “kind” to spend it on their kids. Meanwhile one of them is on their 4th family holiday this year and I’ve not been on one since 2018.

I’m not going to cut them out of my will (though I should, my parents cut me out of theirs so they’re inheriting my share) but their behaviour makes it difficult for me to keep my temper.

I have children and grandchildren and I think it's a very unselfish thing to do.
Far too many people have children because they are expected to or because of pressure. People without children will probably be better off financially and have more freedom to do what they want. They will have to put up with regular questioning about their choice and a presumption that they have problems conceiving.
If people have made that a choice then I respect that completely and in my view are very unselfish.

What rubbish! We had our children because we wanted them. They had no say. Pretty selfish of us.

I always laugh when I read of people accusing the childless of being selfish. As if a child is between your legs waiting to be born and you say "No Nigel, back inside!!"

I remember people saying to me that it was selfish to be child free. I used to agree with them. I had (and still do, albeit it very different) an amazing life. I would tell them that, if it would be more selfish to try and continue with that lifestyle with a child. No one expected me to ever have children or settle down, but here I am. 38 years old with the most beautiful 10 week old little girl, who I am so in love with.
I still stand by what I say, being selfish is when you have children, but still try and live like you’re child free.

Haha exactly, although there are genuinely people out there that think we have no right to "deny" life to people who don't exist 🙄

God this thread is really getting offensive towards parents and children now. What an unpleasant tone.

I would love to have a child but don't feel it would be fair (on the child) to be brought into existence as they would have no other family (I am an only child - they would have no aunties, uncles, cousins etc). I would be an older parent too, so greater risk of the child losing me young, or bring born with disabilities.

Does this make me selfish? I am surely putting my hypothetical child first. I want them, but I think there is a good chance their life wouldn't be so great, so I am opting to spare them from it, even though it brings me extreme sadness.

I can't therefore contribute to the next generation. Do I feel bad about it? Yes, I do. Do I worry that nobody will care about me in my old age - yes, all the time. I often walk around looking at parents with young children and feel like an absolute failure. I have gone so far as to have contemplated suicide over it.

But the one thing that does bring me hope and a sense of purpose for the future is the idea that I can get involved with other things which are important for society in the form of voluntary and charity work. I won't be looking after grandchildren when I am older, but I hope I will be contributing in other ways. And maybe (selfishly) building up connections and a network of people who will look out for me when I need help too.

I feel that's all I can do.

Yes, they are the positives of having children, but also there are enormous positives of having people in society who do not have children.

I work in Older adult social work and have many many colleagues who don't have children. More often than not it's these colleagues who don't have childcare obligations like myself who are able to able to stay late at work late to deal with a crisis such as finding emergency respite, drop off emergency medication at a weekend for someone, stay late to source emergency care and overnight care. I know many childfree people who work in caring roles, or volunteer or have the capacity to help elderly neighbours and other relatives. It's completely offensive and downright absurd to think that only those with children contribute towards society or they are selfish in anyway.

I have a son but I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of just having children for future tax payers or that they should be around caring for elderly relatives. Families are complex and just to spend a morning at my work shows many elderly people with large families have no one to provide care for them.

The fertility issue is complex. Current population rates are unstainable for the planet and if we want to keep living on this planet then we just can't keep producing the same amount of people over and over again. I don't know what the solution is but it certainly isn't to shame or pressure people into having children they don't want. I really think we need to get back to idea of community and us all looking out for one another rather than just isolating into our own nuclear families.

I agree - we can't just keep kicking the can further down the road by pressuring people to have children. The population has to shrink and it will, whether that's by choice or lack of resources.

I was thinking about this again the other day after having lunch with a friend.

She had one child at 25 and didn't enjoy it from the outset. Said within 6 months she wouldn't be having any more.
Turns out her one child is quite disabled. Will never live alone and very unlikely to work much if at all.
Is she selfish as well? Because she hasn't produced any future tax payers or bum wipers. She's only produced one child who will not be able to contribute. Should she have gone on to have more she didn't want to ensure she has someone to care for her and pay tax etc?
Or is the fact she "tried" enough to make her not selfish?

Or am I selfish for choosing not to adopt or go down the donor route when I couldn’t have children of my own?

I wouldn’t say it’s selfish not to have kids.

However, I would definitely say that having kids is (while joyous and wonderful in itself) an act that benefits society enormously and is also a bloody expensive and hard thing to do.

Those of us who don’t have kids will benefit from all the time, effort and shedloads of money that the parents poured into their children, and will get that benefit largely for free. It’s those kids that will pay the taxes that pay pensions, who provide the labour that repair the homes and facilities we’ll need, that are the doctors and nurses who will care for us.

This is why I see red when I see non-parents say that school fees and child benefits shouldn’t be funded, and imply that other people’s kids are somehow a burden on them. Jesus, people, those parents have spent literally hundreds of thousands on those kids that you spent on skiing, and you’re benefitting with no obligation to help out; at least acknowledge it!

Not having kids is not selfish.
I admire that choice.

I have an only child. I'm selfish for not giving her a sibling apparently.

In fact, I think the only thing that is deemed not selfish by society is to have 2 kids between the ages of 30 and 35, one of each of course, have a great job, but plenty of days off to be with the children.
Have a helpful loyal partner.
Do your hobbies and see your friends but not too much.
Be a wonderful present mother but don't loose your life to kids, always be at every parents event.
Don't loose your independence but be a good wife and the type a man wants to find home to.

Basically, it's impossible.
Fuck that shit and bugger society.
Society doesn't live our lives. We do as individuals.

Do what makes you happy.

I am really uncomfortable with this idea that somehow people who don't have children need to be thankful and grateful or feel indebted for those that have children because we're producing future tax payers or future workers. I had children because I wanted a family not because I felt had some sort of civic duty for it. I'm not superior because of it and no one owes me any gratitude towards it.

In fact we could say we also benefit from people not having children. Less people to cause a carbon footprint, or contribute towards overpopulation or a drain on resources.