If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

What motivated you to comment if you think it’s bizzare?

But to answer your question, as stated in my first post, I saw a viral thread on Twitter/X with hundreds of replies berating a woman and calling her “selfish” by choosing to not have children in her 20’s.

I thought the replies were crazy. I was interested to see if any other parents shared the same view as the people on the thread.

If you’re not interested, as I said previously, just move along.

There are loads of threads and topics here that aren't about children. It's moved on and evolved from just being about parenting.

Why is it bizarre? Why is wanting to have a bit more knowledge/insight/understanding about decisions others have made that are different to yours bizarre?

I'm childfree by choice and have been on Mumsnet for years. I find reading what modern mums are going through interesting, most of the women I know of my age group are mums so I like to know what their worries, experiences etc are. There also plenty of sections on this site that deal with issues that aren't child related that I can identify with.

I don't think my presence on here is 'bizarre'.

If you genuinely love, care & get pleasure from each & every milestone you are by nature maternal. If this 'feeling' is only discovered after having children that's wonderful. If it never occurs & you end up resenting your children then perhaps having children was a mistake, especially if it makes you unhappy.

I agree with this completely. Having kids is really really hard and scary. There is no off switch once they're 18. Seeing others enjoy a life without that stress and pressure can be quite difficult I imagine, esp if that person's kids haven't turned out quite as they'd hoped.

For something to be selfish, it must be of the self.

A child is surely the selfish made flesh?

From what’s been lobbed at us by parents on the childless/free board, the rationale is that pre-kids they lived a life of selfish, childish banality, jetting off on foreign holidays and getting drunk all the time, ignorant of all the bad things out there, not a care in the world but never happy either - until they had kids, discovered a societal-consciousness, and begun to live an adult life sacrificing everything for the children and weeping over the state of the world.

Anyone who hasn’t got kids is automatically assumed to be exactly like they were before they had them.

In their eyes, only a parent truly understands that society requires new humans and, having done their bit, they therefore feel entitled to take a moral high ground over those indulgent overgrown teenagers who are stubbornly refusing to make the same sacrifices.

I think there's some truth in this. I'm happily a parent and a working Mum, I love my life and feel so content and fulfilled. I have a mix of friends and was equally as chuffed for my childfree by choice friend and treated her to champagne afternoon tea after getting her tubes tied as I was for my friend who managed to get pregnant after a loss and was desperate to be a mum. I can celebrate both lifestyles while happy in my own.

I think people who are unhappy in their own life are far more likely to look down on others choices

@CherryBlossomArt as others have already said, it's not really just about parenting anymore, tons and tons of threads about other things, including domestic violence, general health, hobbies etc. But even so, lots of people are in caring and parental roles even though they've never had children of their own. They may be raising their siblings, nieces, nephew, cousins, grandkids, or may be foster parents or under a kinship order. They may also be looking for advice for their friends or family, or a work colleague that's struggling with their kids, the list is endless. Accessing a parenting forum isn't just for those who chose to have their own biological kids.

I think when making a choice as massive as becoming a parent it's absolutely fine to be 'selfish'.
Why should someone commit to having a child if they think it won't overall enhance their life, surely a recipe for resentment and unhappiness.

The societally sanctioned version of parenthood that some posters have described is pretty close to my life (sadly I don't earn 100k though!), I've still been judged at times.

I don't think I'm more or less selfish than someone who decided to have more or less children or have them later/earlier or not at all. It's a combination of external circumstances and personal choices that resulted in the life I have.

Often we see people making alternative choices as an attack or judgement of our own rather than a neutral act by the other person in which we are irrelevant. We centre ourselves and want validation that what we've chosen is 'right', when in reality it's all just options.

I don't have children which means I have worked FT since I was 18, and paid tax and NI on my earnings. So I am contributing to the country. I don't feel selfish

@fitzwilliamdarcy yh I've noticed those are the types to get triggered the most by those who choose not to have kids. Morals, good decision making, putting others first, having empathy and a good work ethic very much exists in most people's lives, whether they've got their own kids or not. It feels a little bit like those people have discovered some kind of path to repentance by having kids, one that's not open to those without kids. It's bizarre to me, although I am glad it worked for them. There's a lot of parents who carry on with that lifestyle even once they've had kids, and that to me is the truly selfish.

Having children is a choice but wanting them or not isn't.

Sometime my friends with DC when they're vexed will say "I bet you're so happy with your choice to be child free". I don't really think about it like that. That's like saying I bet you're glad you didn't choose to adopt a camel. I've never wanted to, so why would I.

I’ve always thought “selfish” is the wrong word.

Of the women I know who have chosen not to have children, their reasons are always self-centered: as in, I like my life the way it is, I don’t want to have to put other people first, it looks like such hard work, I don’t want to put my body through that etc etc. So, the reasons all revolve around what she wants and doesn’t want, there are no reasons beyond her own wishes and desires.

Of the men I know who have chosen not to have children, their reasons are a mix of haven’t found the right person, can’t bear to bring a child into climate change, don’t want the responsibility, don’t want to be tied to any particular woman for the res of my life. So, a mix of self-centered and not.

(I’m passing no judgement on anything, just explaining what I see.)

So I can see why people use the word “selfish” but I don’t think it’s the best word to use. Maybe self-centered or self-absorbed? All these words are laden with connotations though, which may not necessarily be fair. So I stick with none of my business/nothing to do with me.

'Of the women I know who have chosen not to have children, their reasons are always self-centered: as in, I like my life the way it is, I don’t want to have to put other people first, it looks like such hard work, I don’t want to put my body through that etc etc. So, the reasons all revolve around what she wants and doesn’t want, there are no reasons beyond her own wishes and desires.'

OK, what's wrong with that though? She likes her life the way it is.
It's her life who's else's wishes and desires should she be putting first?
Unless she has a child then they need to come first which she has enough insight into her own motivations to know she doesn't want.

Elon Musk might have started it - a Trump supporter who has some strange ideas (and some good ones as well). He has 11 or 12 biological kids (primarily through IVF) with three different mothers. I don't believe he has a functional relationship with all of them.

Birth rate has fallen in line with women having access to contraception, getting access to an education and choosing not to live a life as a brood mare.

the selfish call is mainly from men, like Trump who believe women are there to provide babies (explains the hidden anti abortion agenda as well).

I'm not sure anyone really believes not having kids is selfish, it's just seen as a useful line (which it isn't) when you're trying to push a certain view. Note it is never men who are accused of 'selfishness' for not having kids, and note that no one ever describes fatherhood as a 'sacrifice'. It's almost like these people don't want women to have lives outside motherhood and enabling men's success at the expense of what they would like for themselves.

Childfree by choice here. I don't belive the below, but these are the kinds of attitudes I have come across.

I think it is because people assume you're childfree because you want more money, more time for yourself, more traveling, less stress etc than you would be able to have with children. So that feels selfish. You're not willing to give up your time, money etc to look after others.

However, as people have pointed out here, having children also entails selfish decisions (wanting a cute baby, cuddles, family time etc). It is just these are so "default" they aren't even critiqued, dismantled or acknowledged.

People think: "why don't you want children? That's so strange". Then someone goes "it's because they're selfish".

Another conversation: "why do you want children?" Then someone goes "well it's natural. That's the reason we're here, to procreate and pass on our genes. It's the whole point of being alive".

Having children = natural, default, and not in need of critique and explanation

Not having children = deviant, and a sign of personal deficiency: Either you're not able to have them or psychologically devious/defunct in some way

I agree, it is her choice.

However she may not be telling the whole truth. Why should she? We don't have to confide everything to the world.

Some people put on a front to hide personal disappointments and fears.

I've often wondered what I would have done/said, had I not been able to have children or if I had not found a permanent partner with whom to procreate. I probably would have told the truth but I certainly wouldn't have liked being asked about it. I never ask personal questions, adults should know better than to pry.

I often find child free people selfish- not selfish for not having kids, but that they struggle to make allowances for others (and the world often revolves around them).

Having kids is certainly a life lesson that the world does not revolve around you 🤷‍♀️

@Onlyonekenobe A woman who doesn’t use a self-centred reason quickly discovers that the parent asking is unlikely to accept it as a good reason. “Haven’t found the right person? What about going it alone? Don’t lose hope, my friend married at 45 and now has 4 kids! Or why not adopt?” etc.

“Environmental concerns? But your kid could be the one to solve the crisis! You don’t really want to miss out because of what some scientists think may happen one day, do you? You already fly/drive/eat meat, kids don’t make much of a difference! Or why not adopt?” etc.

Hell, even women with fertility struggles can’t escape the “oh just relax and go on a Caribbean holiday, my friend did that and now she has 3 kids! Or why not adopt?”

Sometimes “I’m actually really selfish” is the only thing that shuts the conversation down. Men don’t have this issue because society doesn’t expect them to want to pursue parenthood at all costs, so they can be honest and people just accept it.

My dearest friend is childfree by choice and has freely told people she’s too selfish to procreate. I guess everyone is different.

I didn't think people meant it in a way that you are selfish TO not have children but that people without children are (as a general rule) more selfish than people with children.
It's simply because if you're alone and single you have no one's wants, wishes and desires to take into account but your own. So just by design you get to be pretty selfish. (You know, this is MY routine, MY House, how I like to do it etc)
Then when you get married, you cannot be quite as focused on your one likes and dislikes. There is someone else, you adjust what you like to do based on whether they are sick or going through a hard time etc. But as a couple you can still be pretty selfish.
And then once you have kids there is less room for selfishness.
Yeah, you'd like a spa day, but your child is sick so know you have to take the into account.sure you'd love to stay up late and party, but you have a newborn who does not do so great in the club.
There is usually something more important than your wants in a moment. (Your baby)

I thi k that's what people mean.
You cannot be as selfish as you were before you had kids, it's just impossible.

I dislike it that we have to go to the opposite extreme.
Sure it ain't nice being called selfish for not having kids, but similarly I don't think it's right to look down on a woman who does (and maybe has more than 2) and call her a brood mare. Wow.

So that’s live and let live then😁