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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This marriage is financial abuse - AIBU?

618 replies

catstaff47 · 19/10/2024 19:43

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

  1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

  2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

  3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

  4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

  5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

OP posts:
fetchacloth · 21/10/2024 19:26

I think it would help your friend more if she could begin developing her own career with better pay so that she can afford to save up an 'escape' fund.
I accept that her partner pays most of the bills but there doesn't seem to be any financial transparency on his part and there likely never will be.

Dogsbreath7 · 21/10/2024 19:39

yeesh · 19/10/2024 19:45

well it seems strange but also why doesn’t she work more? And if he pays for everything then what does she need to borrow money for?

I don’t think £150 for food shop is ‘pay for everything’! My OH likes to make a deal out of a btl mortgage coming out of his account despite the fact he benefits from the income.

he never buys anything for the household (but will buy fishing gear). EVERY bit of furniture or household item is paid by me because I will buy something good, good value/ warranty, good design. If left to him (on occasion when I have said ‘you sort it’ he buys sh**t. Thankfully I now earn more than him but when I had a period of not working I ran up twice £15k credit card bills buying the unseen things that are needed for a household. It’s not just rent/morthage, food, utilities. Who pays for school clothes, kid clubs, holidays?

How OP lives on £12k and pays for everything on top his knows. She would be better off divorced at least she would get 50% now. What is she doing for pension? No credit for child rearing and you are a woman!

MustWeDoThis · 21/10/2024 19:43

catstaff47 · 19/10/2024 19:43

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

  1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

  2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

  3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

  4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

  5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

Yes this is financial abuse and entrapment. It's illegal in some aspect. They are married so she can actually request a financial subject access request. 50% of all his money is hers, if they are married. The laws recently changed. She could actually take him to court and demand this 50% and half of his pension when he draws it down. I work with people in these situations and if you consider her vulnerable and being abused, you can make a referral to adult welfare services for a safeguarding check. She can also inform the Police he is withholding money. Financial abuse is a crime. You need to show her this thread, but ignore the comments where the husband is being supported because those are either being abused themselves, naive, or jaded.

laraitopbanana · 21/10/2024 19:44

catstaff47 · 19/10/2024 19:52

She works about 3 days per week, but within school hours. He can't cope with thd kids si it all falls in her. She was a SAHM for many years.

The issues for me are

  1. They have no shared finances
  2. Beyond bills etc, she has no idea how much he has in his accounts - no clue
  3. She feels she can't ask him how much money he has saved
  4. If she runs out of money - that's it. She can't ask him.
  5. Occasionally, he might see fit to give her an amount of cash - like pocket money. Very patronising.

Hi op,

I am not getting the feeling you have the full story.
also why does she complain with the amount she has? Just because he has more? I mean…he earns it. OR, is it because she needs something? Or the children need something?

It does seem odd to just be unhappy about having “only” 1K+ per month. But if he constantly buy stuff and she can’t…yeah I’d be miffed.

Problem isn’t money though right. Problem is, he doesn’t seem to care for her at all…or for the children.

BIossomtoes · 21/10/2024 19:45

I don’t think £150 for food shop is ‘pay for everything’!

If that was all he paid you’d be right but he also pays the mortgage and all the bills.

howshouldibehave · 21/10/2024 19:46

She would be better off divorced

As we have no idea how much disposable income he has, this may well not be true.

GranPepper · 21/10/2024 19:54

MustWeDoThis · 21/10/2024 19:43

Yes this is financial abuse and entrapment. It's illegal in some aspect. They are married so she can actually request a financial subject access request. 50% of all his money is hers, if they are married. The laws recently changed. She could actually take him to court and demand this 50% and half of his pension when he draws it down. I work with people in these situations and if you consider her vulnerable and being abused, you can make a referral to adult welfare services for a safeguarding check. She can also inform the Police he is withholding money. Financial abuse is a crime. You need to show her this thread, but ignore the comments where the husband is being supported because those are either being abused themselves, naive, or jaded.

It would be helpful if you explain what a Financial Subject Access Request is (and whether you are UK based) when the person requesting the information may not be an account holder so isn't entitled to the information in normal circumstances.

howshouldibehave · 21/10/2024 20:09

ignore the comments where the husband is being supported because those are either being abused themselves, naive, or jaded.

If it turns out that the husband only has eg £400 spending money himself after paying all of the bills, food and mortgage, maybe all those comments were actually right.What would the police do if she claims he is withholding money but she actually has more spending money than him?

Can you tell us more about a financial subject access request? Do you mean that anyone can ask their spouse how much money they have in their own personal bank account and they are legally forced to respond to this request? With a solicitor?

Mammaonthemoney · 21/10/2024 21:00

I would not find this acceptable. She has given up having any sort of career to raise their children. Yes she could work more now that they are older but how likely is it that she’ll earn similar to her DH after taking such a long career break? With her part time hours I imagine she takes on much of the mental load and household chores, etc.
He will have a lovely pension pot building up, she will not.
He may have been able to save, she will not.
He may have been able to invest, she will not.

If they have a house and kids together I think the finances should all go into one pot, which pays for the mortgage, all bills, clothes for the kids, food, school trips, pet insurance, vet bills, cars and fuel, etc, plus entertainment and joint savings. Whatever he is paying into his pension pot, they should be paying the same into hers so that they’re on equal ground when they retire.
Whatever money is left over should be split equally as “fun money - no questions asked”.
I know people don’t seem to like doing it this way but honestly, why, when you’ve built a life with someone, would you want to see them with less than you? Not being able to go out for date nights, holidays, etc because they can’t afford it and you can? If you’ve agreed to share a life with someone, share it!
The only exception here I would say is inheritance. If one of them inherits assets or money, it’s up to them how they want to spend it but it should stay out of the joint/family pot.

MeandT · 21/10/2024 21:03

I have a friend like this. "Big man" has the big man job & he decides how it can be spent on holidays/home improvements/exotic holidays (for him with the boys)/ family holidays (often a tent halfway up some windswept hill.

Wife gets an "allowance" as well as working PT, but doesn't stretch far come the school holidays.

Totally takes the piss that he gets housekeeping/cook/cleaner/nanny/holiday club/taxi & painter/decorator services all thrown in - as well as getting his nob serviced.

Yet she has nothing to show for it.

It is a marriage on the legal paper only. And both of these women would be significantly financially better off divorced-it beggars belief that the blokes don't recognise this financially before one of them actually takes action & then their penny-pinching comes back & bites them in the arse 😬

Serp12 · 21/10/2024 21:29

I live exactly like this. I have decided /been forced to work full time. Even though I will struggle with children / the home. It’s a sad existence.

DoreenonTill8 · 21/10/2024 21:40

Serp12 · 21/10/2024 21:29

I live exactly like this. I have decided /been forced to work full time. Even though I will struggle with children / the home. It’s a sad existence.

How do you think the majority of working parents cope? @Serp12 ? Can never understand this drama llama of 'ooo noo! Will need holiday/school clubs like most of the UK...
Why 'forced' is your dp/h working ft? Do you think they're being forced?

Edingril · 21/10/2024 21:42

Women do not have to give up a career they choose too, they also choose to work PT

Woman are able to think for themselves are they not?

Purplethursdays123 · 21/10/2024 21:51

MustWeDoThis · 21/10/2024 19:43

Yes this is financial abuse and entrapment. It's illegal in some aspect. They are married so she can actually request a financial subject access request. 50% of all his money is hers, if they are married. The laws recently changed. She could actually take him to court and demand this 50% and half of his pension when he draws it down. I work with people in these situations and if you consider her vulnerable and being abused, you can make a referral to adult welfare services for a safeguarding check. She can also inform the Police he is withholding money. Financial abuse is a crime. You need to show her this thread, but ignore the comments where the husband is being supported because those are either being abused themselves, naive, or jaded.

This simply is not true: every person has a separate legal identity and being married is not the same as being merged. I would be furious if a bank allowed my husband access to my sole account, he would not be entitled.

SAR are for yourself, are they not?

lolly792 · 21/10/2024 21:56

Yes that post was absolutely incorrect!

howshouldibehave · 21/10/2024 22:15

You need to show her this thread, but ignore the comments where the husband is being supported because those are either being abused themselves, naive, or jaded.

Or you could tell her to ignore advice by people telling her she has rights for subject access reports on her husband’s bank accounts.

Notthegodofsmallthings · 21/10/2024 22:15

Keeping financial information secret is recognised as financial abuse. Financial abuse is recognised as a form of domestic abuse. That is a FACT. Please check out womens aid.
We need some more public education on this, as lots of people still don't understand the many forms domestic abuse takes, and it's (mainly) hurting women and children.

lolly792 · 21/10/2024 22:35

Taking money off your elderly, stressed parents because you want more holidays and lunches out is abusive.

Insisting on only working 3 days a week with teenage children and expecting to be bankrolled by your husband is pretty abusive too.

Youthiswastedontheyoung · 21/10/2024 22:43

@lolly792 Don't many women with older kids stay at home even when they could be working though? They'd argue they are housewives? Some believe it is their husband's "duty" to support them.

TheMamaLife · 22/10/2024 01:07

Strictly1 · 19/10/2024 19:56

We have separate accounts. My husband couldn’t tell you what I’ve saved and vice-versa. No big deal and if he asked, I’d tell him but he hasn’t.
She needs to work more.

This is the same for me and my husband too.

“Abuse” is such a strong word to use. How is his treatment of her in general? They have a slightly odd set up, (she’s paying for the kids things, and her feeling like she can’t ask him about savings), but it’s not necessarily abuse.

if the mortgage is in both their names, then she’s more a “kept woman” who has chosen to work a few hours, then an abused one who has to work also.

Why doesn’t she work FT??

MeandT · 22/10/2024 05:05

TheMamaLife · 22/10/2024 01:07

This is the same for me and my husband too.

“Abuse” is such a strong word to use. How is his treatment of her in general? They have a slightly odd set up, (she’s paying for the kids things, and her feeling like she can’t ask him about savings), but it’s not necessarily abuse.

if the mortgage is in both their names, then she’s more a “kept woman” who has chosen to work a few hours, then an abused one who has to work also.

Why doesn’t she work FT??

Come on, this is pretty disingenuous...clearly this is a woman whose lived experience is VERY different from yours - can you have a little empathy for that?

She very clearly lives with a man who sees child-rearing as 'woman work'. She's had a decade & a half of forfeiting her own career development & earning capacity because he is the kind of person who expected her to be there for every night waking, every sickness day and every single inset & school holiday. And no doubt the house to be immaculate; the wardrobe to be full of clean, ironed shirts ready for his very important BIG job; & dinner to be on the table every night too.

And for these services, she 'earns' the dizzying reward of calling him her husband, living in "his" house, and getting food & bills paid. But not clothes, kids activities, school lunches, trips, cinema, presents for birthday parties, books, etc etc. No, no - that's 'woman spending' because it's for the benefit of (his!) children, so she needs to fund all of that, and she's not allowed to access funds from his very important big job to cover female fripperies like that!!!

That IS pretty controlling. And significantly underpaid compared to the services of a nanny, cook & cleaner (& gardner, decorator, nurse?) over the years!

I've got nothing against a marriage being a completely equal partnership where she develops her career & shoulders cost in an equal ratio to earnings. And he picks up equal responsibility for planning & paying for kids' holiday activities, time off for their sick days, and all the household tasks & mental load.

That's clearly not what's gone on here & let's all stop victim-blaming her for not earning more while she's had to raise these children without access to all the family assets, shall we?

MeandT · 22/10/2024 06:37

Having caught up with OP's massive drip feed about her father expecting his mortgage to be paid off by her husband, I can see why her BIL (the secretive husband in question) may opt to keep his finances under closer wraps. Nevertheless, unless 'bills' includes some hefty school fees, it seems very unlikely that the DH in question has less disposable income than his wife.

I completely get that there are many families living with far less than £1k/month disposable income that comes from her PT job. But if, for example, the disposable income left after the family outgoings he has are, say, £2k. Why does he get to decide what that's spent on/put it all in savings in his name/use it all as pension top ups for him?

Surely in a fair marriage they should look at his residual income alongside her PT income & make decisions on savings, what goes into whose pension (while being tax efficient) and family spending together. This is the critical step which is missing. It just reads like he's treating her like a teenager (while grossly underestimating what his own teenagers cost to support).

Keeping your PIL out of your own earnings is a deeply different matter from not facilitating your kids to go swimming AND your wife having a lunch out occasionally. I understand many families manage without that level of spending, but let's not presume the mortgage is so very high that he's left with so little it wouldn't cover that - it feels EXTREMELY unlikely.

And keep in mind that the nanny services DH is still receiving even for his teenagers would set him back somewhere between £35-45k a year, including taxes - so a grown up discussion about finances doesn't feel like such a very unreasonable ask!

GRex · 22/10/2024 07:01

the nanny services DH is still receiving even for his teenagers would set him back somewhere between £35-45k a year
This is just silliness. An early evening / weekend nanny is not someone living in their own home and looking after their own children, she is their mother and should be liable for half these putative "nanny" costs. You don't pay the same amount to babysit teenagers as for little babies even if they were real costs, an au pair would be a more usual choice. So the true cost is more like £25k and she is due to pay half that, so £12.5k. You're also entirely missing here that half the bills are rightly hers, to pay not only for herself but for her children; the chances of full bills being under £50k with their mortgage to pay is extremely slim, so she "owes" £25k of work minimum. She's now at -£12.5k and quite simply is being paid for by the husband; she could throw in her part time salary but keeps it for lunches etc.

If a woman chooses not to work full time (or even at all), no issues. I doubt many people care, it's just a life choice that is up to them to make as a family. I simply can't abide the pretence though that skittering around having lunch with your sister, doling out money for an occasional pair of trainers and cleaning your own toilet are some sort of equivalent to the workhouse. If it makes her happy, fabulous, let her get on and enjoy it. Stop with the false equivalences over earned money though, because your sums are way off.

MadMadamMum · 22/10/2024 07:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn due to privacy concerns

Champers66 · 22/10/2024 07:26

catstaff47 · 19/10/2024 19:43

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

  1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

  2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

  3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

  4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

  5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

I’d love to have 1k a month to myself ha ha. Nothing stopping her working full time, being around for ‘teens’ is a cop out. They are at school 9-3 Monday - Friday. Those hours are full time.

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