This marriage is financial abuse - AIBU?

[catstaff47]

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

You say this, but do the maths and actually there isn’t loads of money and actually they very much COULD be living hand to mouth.

£1 million house - mortgage £4500 (could even be more than that).
Council Tax, Gas, Electric, Water, WiFi, TV, Home & Life Insurance, Pet Insurance- another £800-1000 (could be more)

So straight away there’s £5500 gone from his income.

120k is 6.5k ish a month after pension etc.

So paying mortgage and household bills he has £1000 left. Of that he budgets £600 for the food shops.

So now we’re down to him having £400 left after everything is paid for.

She has £1000.

But even with half the equity, then the poor sister wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage free house.

She might have to get a full time job and a mortgage and the property might be a flat in a rubbish area and might only give her £400 a month spending money. I don’t think the poor sister has this in mind at all.

She won't need to @howshouldibehave because her BIL will be paying for it.

Your opening line on this post...

This is about a friend.

You are still neck deep in it OP. You've come on here and called your BIL abusive and a lunatic and said that he should pay your parents back because they gave your sister money he didn't ask for. You've backed her entitlement to the hilt and blamed her DH for her bad behaviour . You're expecting your DH to buy her a house if they divorce. You're idea of what is needs and what is wants and your views on working are messed up. This whole thread has been you neck deep in the madness. You need to do something to break away from this toxicity and really step back not just think you have while you're still enabling it I'd suggest some counselling might help you.

Your DH sounds like a good guy, your family shouldn't be expecting what they do of him, he could end up getting hurt by your families sense of entitlement to other people's money. I hope you have his back and will stand up to your family on his behalf if necessary. If I was him I'd be wondering if I really had that support given the way you think about money and how you support your families sense of entitlement. Like saying your BIL owed your parents the money that they gave to your sister when it was nothing to do with him and you acting like it's a given he'll fund your sister and her kids lives while she won't even be expected to contribute the most she can by working full time.

The fact she expects others to pick up the tab for her spending on non essentials instead of working more makes her a CF. No one owes you lunchs out and holidays.

I've been back and forth with my views in reading this thread. However the OP's latest updates suggest to me.

1. The OP's extendend family have a strong "the man must pay for it" view
2. OP's sister is jealous of her wealthier sister and parents and feels she is entitled for them to pay for things for her.
3. OP's sister freely spends her money (I have teens, they have an allowance they have to stick to; at 16 they were expected to get a part time job. They don't get everything they ask for given to them) and expects others to make up the shortfall rather than taking responsibility for herself
4. DH may well be trying to sideline himself by this dynamic by not revealing financial details as he knows they well get relayed back to the whole family and him then "expected" to pay for more than just his own family.

Things that really jump out are

1. If I was skint, I would be suggesting going for a walk or meeting at each other's houses for tea and biscuits NOT going out for expensive lunches I couldn't afford.
2. The only bit that's potentially unfair is that maybe the DH should pay for more towards the teens (although it sounds like he does pay something, and most of what OP does pay may be unnecessary, so it's hard to judge).

Having read your updates OP I really think you should step back from your family. You and your husband must have worked so hard to achieve and have what you have, yet your entitled parents and sister are keen to take off you. They are using you but manipulating you to believe this is somehow ‘right’. There is no financial abuse going on, but there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on. You are the victim of this!

You do not have to buy her anything, lend her money, house her or anything else. The same for your parents. If you CHOOSE to do any of these things, it is very kind, but should not be expected or forced.

I earn considerably more than my partner.
i cannot comprehend keeping all I earn to myself to the extent that my partner has to borrow from family and firends.

We are a family. A team. Bringing up our children as a unit. We pool all finances, as I couldn’t do my job without his support with the kids.

Financial abuse or not… the scenario OP is describing is miserable way to operate in a marriage.

It’s not the way I would choose to operate. But unfair does not equal financial abuse. She has choices.

I wrote that before seeing the 1m house drip feed

So yes out of his 6k a month take home I would estimate 5k gone on mortgage, bills and food.
He probably has less disposable spending money than his wife

AIBU and what would you say to her?

Get a full time job.
Stop asking other people for money.
Speak to your husband and have a honest conversation about who is paying for what and find out what his finances are like. He might have less spending money than you.

Sorry I can't respond to all the comments. I go back and forth about how I feel about all this.

Don't feel sorry about my DH though. He's mainly outside the madness and he doesn't get into it. But he would think it was his responsibility to sort her out if she eg. didn't get enough from a divorce settlement to buy a flat / house or something.

I've just had my dad ring now and tell me to send her money. I said that her husband should be her first port of call - not me. Where is he in all this? I said she needs to take responsibility a bit more. I told him I have been on the internet and this is what people are saying. I said, if she was a single mum on MW of course I'd help her, but we have three kids of our own and actually, nobody has any idea how much they have or don't have as a family, it's her DH. It's her family. She needs to just ask HIM.

Sounds like your family see you and your DH as a cash cow, and if they plead poverty, you will provide.

Your dad and sister sound like a pair of grifters, and I'm not sure I'd believe your sister on how the finances are split in her household.

If there are issues, only she can address them. But rather than do that, she'd rather fleece you.

andthat · Today 13:20

"I earn considerably more than my partner.
i cannot comprehend keeping all I earn to myself to the extent that my partner has to borrow from family and firends."

Yes exactly - that is how I feel about this H.

I've just had my dad ring now and tell me to send her money.

Thats bizarre! You can’t just demand other people give away money. If she had a full time job, she wouldn’t need any of this!

It’s exactly how I feel too. But the situation is still not financially abusive.

I don’t think this is financial abuse no. When I was being financially abused, I was working a minimum wage job and my jobless partner at the time was forcing me to pay his rent on his room share (£600) , his debts, his phone bill, food each month and his drug habit - all along with me trying to pay for my own rent and bills. I literally lived off soup and bread (without butter) as I couldn’t afford to eat whilst he lived a lavish lifestyle. When my ex was in work, he still continued to make me fund EVERYTHING and his earnings continued to fund his drug habit and computer games. I remember us being invited to a wedding and I had no clothes to wear (my clothes were embarrassing, they had holes and everything). Instead of being ‘allowed’ to use my own money on an outfit to attend the wedding, he made me buy him a £250 suit and £70 shoes and I didn’t have the money to afford to clothe myself to attend.

This is financial abuse. Him having all the money to go out and do various activities with his friends multiple times a week and getting a takeaway for himself (I’m vegan and he would only buy meat dishes). Whilst I couldn’t even afford to pay for my work do or grab some work clothes or even a new book for myself.

OP you need to seriously look at your family and cut this toxicity out at the core.

The absolute gall of someone calling you and asking you to send a third party money is beyond ludicrous.

You have two choices - keep the status quo. Put up, shut up etc.

Or actually face up to the real issue here: your father is controlling you and your sister is a grifter. If you put boundaries in place you will become the devil. Everything you have done before will instantly be forgotten.

Please stop coming back to her husband, ffs. He is not the issue here. You have been told this 200 times and it’s still your focus.

Eventually you will have to say no and you will become the villain.

Get a proper counsellor specialising in complex family issues and open your eyes. It’s so clear for everyone here.

It’s very easy and convenient if it’s the husband. You don’t like him and you can forget about him. From your posts it seems as though father is controlling, your mother is enabling and your sister is entitled. Get rid of
BIL and these things will all still be true.

You can send the money, continue to blame him but then you are enabling her just like your mum.

Yes I said today that sending money like this is just like a sticking plaster over the real issues. Let's see what happens now.

If this is true and it is family members trying to get you to pay for someone elses lifestyle then your whole family are being financially abusive but it's towards you....not your Friend

Your Friend is doing very nicely, they'll be fine.

Concentrate on you and your immediate family circle...tell others you're no longer having discussions about your or anyone's finances, if they keep on change the subject, if they carry on and ignore your wishes you must conclude that they only get in contact with you for one reason and one reason only, and why not it saves them having to hand over their own money if you're so willing to continue.

You are in control of how you continue this, you can stick to you guns and say no more
Or
You can be a cash cow for these people and put up with having made that decision.
You choose.

You don't seem to be listening to those posters who have done the maths for you. 120k with a house worth 1 million, after the mortgage and all bills paid he most likely has less than her left to spend on anything else. Where do you propose he gets extra money for her from ?

She is a good person though and she wants to do the very best for her kids. She doesn't get any support from the H, so feels very lonely. To be fair, she isn't complaining about the amount of money she has. Sometimes she says it's fine. It's more that - when she runs out (due to particular expenses in a given week or month), she still feels like he will not help her out. He is just disengaged and to rigid in the way he thinks. Let's be honest, most husbands, even if you have separate finances for some reason, would help out their wives in that kind of scenario. She really doesn't buy much for herself at all. It all goes on the kids I would say. I think she is entitled to some transparency, flexibility and support from her DH, but it's not there. Anyway, only she can sort this out with him. Thanks so much for all the perspectives.

I have no idea what their mortgage is, so I can't calculate his outgoings.