New Lucy Letby details

[Mrsdoyler]

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

Not aggressive in the slightest and I haven't insulted you once.

You posted a click bait title and failed to post the full article later. Some people on here do, some people don't - most are either trying to hide something or being dense.

My expectations are right where they should be.

There really really isn’t and you and your fellow Letby apologists will be waiting a very long time for that to happen. The bitch was both an incompetent nurse AND a murdering , evil cow. I hope she rots in hell.

I couldn’t find a definition. I am more focussed on the fact that errors cause hundreds of deaths a year, every year.

Yes you have insulted me

You called me a tit.

Have you forgotten that already?

It's a big thing unfortunately "failing to fail" a nursing student

Is it just me that thinks she's autistic and that is why she can someties look blank or come across as lacking empathy

I can imagine how tough that would've been; personally I provably would've started doubting myself if I was in the right or not.

The colleague was 'distraught'- Letby was not. Why are people looking to excuse a convicted baby killer ?

Antibiotics can kill people if they are allergic to them, not sure how it unfolded though but I've seen wrong ab given or given to the wrong patient, prescribed when pt is allergic.

I teach nursing students in a university and this poster is spot on - it is immensely difficult to fail students in placement. It's a complete ballache for practice assessors and requires a load of hoops and stages for practice staff to jump through. Busy nurses often haven't the time or energy to do this and substandard students bump along and keep passing or having to do a retake but end up as Registered Nurses. Well done for those that do fail poorly performing students - but I've seen a few students graduate who I'd be cautious about giving them a pot plant to look after

I'm sure she would have used that as a 'defence' if she could have.

Yes I did say you are a tit. I apologise.

Oh yes, how could I forget a penicillin allergy!
However, would like to know how the error unfolded. The screenshots do not show that at all.

Pp called you out (correctly) for a totally misleading information. Lucy Letby failed a placement (not her whole training), because of a lack of confident knowledge on her drug calculations. She did not fail her whole training because of a lack of empathy.

I’m not trying to excuse anything. I’m just saying this particular incident is totally irrelevant, which surely anyone can see?

Whether she’s a baby killer or not she’s certainly capable of making mistakes, like all of us. And the only way this wasn’t a mistake is if the other nurse went along with it. It simply doesn’t make sense to use this as any kind of evidence about Letby’s guilt or innocence.

But you specifically focused on "66 million medication errors of clinical significance" in your last reply to me. Hence why I'm specifically asking about them and what they are. We don't need a definition of what the errors are that have directly caused a death because that's exactly what they are - errors that cause a death.

Hear hear.

I recently had a totally incorrect dosage of medication queried by the pharmacist. It needed to be sent back to the GP to be changed. I certainly don't think the GP was trying to kill me.

The issue with all the recent 'evidence' is the lack of context. Did the mentor have proof of raising concerns about empathy at the time, or is it a retrospective thought?

What proportion of student nurses fail a placement?

What proportion of students nurses make a medication error at some point?

If you chose another individual nurse at random would it be likely to find similar (or entirely different) issues? Certainly from my experience of hospitals it wouldn't surprise me to find all manner of issues if you looked into any one person.

I’ve been a nurse for 26 years and have worked in multiple settings. I do not know of a single nurse who would not double check medication thoroughly with a student.

Read it for yourself, it’s a long transcript.
thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Thirlwall-Inquiry-16-October-2024.pdf

But it was recorded as an incident and Yvonne Farmer stated it would have been categorised as a “major error”. And as Farmer stated, it should have been avoidable as no one should been given drugs that have not been prescribed to them (yet Letby stated it was unavoidable!) Would you want your baby to be given antibiotics that they didn’t need? What if they were allergic? What if it leads to antiobiotic resistance when they genuinely need them? Never mind the morphine incident that happened before it, if you were being generous you could say that it was an accident. But who accidentally gives someone drugs when they don’t need them? Almost like a baby being given insulin when no one on the unit was prescribed it.

No? You asked me which category your sort of computer record only medication error would be of the 237 million and I said likely not in the 66 million of clinical significance. I gave you my best guess. You are welcome to read the article yourself, you know better than I what error you made.

Well it wasn't intended to be misleading. I saw the headline of the news article and I posted it. The headline of the news article does say what I wrote.

Obviously she failed the placement for more reasons than lack of empathy. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

But her placement mentor did say that Lucy Letby was cold, and was not good with patients.

That is completely accurate.

Maybe a more accurate way I could write It is

"lucy letby failed her placement over various issues, one being a concern over her ability to administer medication correctly. Her mentor also noted that Lucy Letby was cold and was not good at building relationships with patients"

Ahh well, she forfeited the right to keep her incompetence secret when she murdered multiple babies, and attempted to murder more. The only thing grossly unfair is the number of parents who’ve had to bury their children, murdered by one of the people they should’ve been able to trust the most.

As to the PP asking whether she murdered them or whether she was simply incompetent, it was always pretty obvious that if she was convicted she’d face a WLO, if she was just a bit shit surely that would’ve been a defence she’d have run with, especially with the possibility of life in prison with no prospect of parole?

It's very common for healthcare workers to have compassion fatigue. They meet multiple people who die or are ill or who have tragic stories.

They have to wall it off somehow or they'd be off sick with stress months into the job and wouldn;t be able to focus on the practical aspects of caring.

It sounds awful for a nurse not to be empathetic but counter intuitively it can in reality be a good thing.

We just don’t know the context. This could be something or nothing. Like so much in this case!

Letby explained The antibiotics thing away as getting confused because she was busy and had lots of babies to administer medicine to. Which seems pretty plausible, but we have no way of knowing how plausible without knowing the exact conditions on her ward that day I suppose - and we never will.

Her words:

”Although not excusable at the time, myself and my colleague were administering multiple antibiotics all due at a similar time, as well as caring for our own patients and supporting junior members of the team, including a newly qualified nurse, when the unit was not staffed with adequate skill mix.”