New Lucy Letby details

[Mrsdoyler]

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

Lot of great student nurses fail a placement because of a bad fit. Wouldn't read a lot into it.

I think it is but they're so desperate for nurses and midwives it's probably overlooked.

I didn't say that all nurses do it, did I. And I'm glad you do check.

I said that a student nurse came on mumsnet, and wrote that she is being asked to mix up drugs, and then someone comes over and scribbles their signature on it, and doesn't check the drug at all

So obviously that does go on in some hospitals.

That thread is still here on mumsnet if you want to read it.

A couple of my classmates failed their degree on the academic work. However from my own experience, placement failings do happen, but generally yes, they do get to repeat a placement with a different mentor or in a different setting.

I think there were numerous signs that she wasn’t right and suffered from a total lack of empathy. I don’t think she was as good at her job as has been portrayed, nor particularly popular with colleagues. It’s depressing that there will probably still be loads of her supporters posting on here.

Did she really? I closely followed the story and trial but since she was sentenced I stopped.

It is strange that this wasn’t known at the time as it seems like quite important information.

I’ve thought the same thing and I’m not sure why this isn’t considered more often. There are issues with the evidence to the point it’s not clear that anyone committed murder.

The alternative view is that generalised incompetence, poor facilities and understaffing led to the rise in deaths, and Letby was just unlucky to be there when many of the babies collapsed.

Is it not possible that she was not just unlucky to be there, but did cause some of the deaths she’s accused of - through negligence or incompetence?

In which case she should be in prison, but not for 15 life terms.

This was my first thought I trained as a nurse in the 90,s and in mental health sp with adults has a registered nurse you would risk your own PIN putting a signatures next to medication prepared by a student ,surely you would, check ,double check etc .

Me too and I always thought most meds are double checked by 2 RN in paeds anyway, they certainly were when i was a student.

And I didn't say that you did say all nurses did it. Did I? Nor did I dispute that it ever happens. Did I?

When I did my training (before Letby, but not that much before) you got one resit and if you failed it you were out. There was actually a pretty significant dropout/ failure rate.

I’m pretty appalled at stories of student nurses being left to make drugs alone with no supervision. It didn’t happen to me and doesn’t happen at my place of work. At all.

I failed a placement because of issues with my mentor. I was bereft! If she failed one placement (you need to complete them all for your degree) I’m not really sure it’s massively significant, surely they would have had concerns throughout if there were obvious signs.

If that was the case why did she falsify medical notes to try to hide her having been in contact with some of the babies she targeted? She may have been a shit nurse but she also deliberately killed those babies.

What are placements marked on?

I'd be interested to know what action was taken if that's really happening, nurses can get struck off for that.

Fake news - stop it. No one fails their nursing exams purely on lack of empathy and you should show your evidence just than a petty little sentence.

People would defend anything this murderer did, it is truly baffling. How many coincidences can one accept?

anyone could have failed their placement
anyone could have given a baby 10x the dose of morphine
anyone could have given a baby antibiotics that were not for them
anyone could have...

Seriously!?

Nursing definitely seems like a very stressful job. Fair play to those of you who do it.

Like a lot of us don't our in a job, where if we make a mistake, it could result in a person's death.

Its not fake news. You said "show your evidence".
I did already put the link to the article in the thread. Did you read it?

I didn't even know empathy was part of their training, I've never met an empathetic healthcare professional in my life. Genuinely thought it was the no-nonsense brisk attitude they were trained in.

There are a number of criteria that each placement is marked on - performing certain skills competently, demonstrating knowledge of drugs and disease processes, however every mentor should be quizzing their students on how their knowledge and practice relates back to the NMC code, which is the code that all nurses are held to when they pay their registration fee. It’s available to read on the NMC website.

Me too. If this is happening, it sounds like an issue with poor practice on one particular ward, it certainly isn't commonplace.

I also wonder if its an issue with the perception of the student. I can tell at a quick glance if it's the correct amount of liquid/tablets. I often know exactly what medications my patients are on (we have our patients medium to long term) and could tell you at a few seconds glance if it's the correct medication or not. So to a student, it may seem like a cursory glance and signature without me having 'properly' checked, but I have in fact clocked what they've administered and can tell that it's right.

Failing a nurse placement due to being “cold” or “lack of empathy” is entirely irrelevant in a murder case. If we thought bedside manner was a reliable indicator of a psychopathic serial killer, most top surgeons would fail instantly.

I have seen several articles like this with sensationalised headlines saying how awful Lucy Letby is personality wise.

It seems an effort is underway to sway public opinion against the inquiry & any appeal based on the valid concerns of multiple experts that the conviction is not a safe conviction due to faulty and/or mis-represented evidence presented at the trials.

I don’t know if people missed my post. Nursing education was changed in 2018 so that students no longer have a single “mentor”. Basically, there was too much of an issue with mentors taking a “personal dislike” to a student and failing them. I do think Lucy Letby is guilty and maybe she was also a bad nurse- but the system was changed for a reason, largely to stop nurses “eating their young”.

Not defending her but where 2 nurses draw up , check or administer meds they are equally responsible for any error. All controlled drugs, iv antibiotics are double checked at each stage where ii have always worked, look at the nmc website for reasons nurses are sanctioned or struck off, you'd be amazed how many med errors occur each year.

Yeah it's good the mentor system has been changed. It doesn't work well, when people are just entering a career.

You see it a lot with pgces for teaching too. The student gets one mentor , who can pass or fail the placement. If the mentor teacher doesn't like the student, they will be nasty to them.

A mentor is never a good way of examining a student.