New Lucy Letby details

[Mrsdoyler]

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

Yeah and I did and that's not why it said she failed. Fake news.

Sadly I wouldn't read a lot into this. Many students of courses like nursing, teaching fail placements especially when just like in the workplace there is personality clashes or someone not being a good fit in that workplace.
Lack of empathy seems like a subjective reason rather than 1 that can be measured in same way teachers for example can fail for classroom management, behaviour etc there is no "pass mark".

I mean perhaps not phrased in that way but it's not uncommon
As a call handler we were "wonder if I will get this call or that? I haven't had one yet and I'm nervous about it"
CPR calls were a big deal and the first one was nerve wracking so people would often say they wanted to get it over with

JESUS CHRIST! THAT IS NOT OKAY.

That's chilling.

It reminds me a bit of that case where the weird neighbour was suspected of murder because he was socially awkward and actually had nothing to do with it. I’m not suggesting Letby is innocent or not but this does have that smack of ‘oooh I always thought she was a bit odd…’

This study has some shocking numbers
“We estimated that 237 million medication errors occur at some point in the medication process in England per year. This is a large number, but 72% have little/no potential for harm. It is likely that many errors are picked up before they reach the patient, but we do not know how many.

1. We estimated that 66 million potentially clinically significant errors occur per year, 71.0% of these in primary care. This is where most medicines in the NHS are prescribed and dispensed. Prescribing in primary care accounts for 33.9% of all potentially clinically significant errors.
2. Error rates in the UK are similar to those in other comparable health settings such as the US and other countries in the EU.
3. There is little evidence about how medication errors lead to patient harm. We had to estimate burden using studies that measured harm from adverse drug reactions (ADRs). The estimated NHS costs of definitely avoidable ADRs are £98.5 million per year, consuming 181,626 beddays, causing 712 deaths, and contributing to 1,708 deaths. This can be divided into:

 Primary care ADRs leading to a hospital admission (£83.7 million; causing 627 deaths);  Secondary care ADRs leading to a longer hospital stay (£14.8 million; causing 85 deaths and contributing to 1,081 deaths).”

https://orda.shef.ac.uk/articles/report/PREVALENCE_AND_ECONOMIC_BURDEN_OF_MEDICATION_ERRORS_IN_THE_NHS_IN_ENGLAND_Rapid_evidence_synthesis_and_economic_analysis_of_the_prevalence_and_burden_of_medication_error_in_the_UK/25218950?file=44544338

She failed because her clinical knowledge was not up to standard which would have made her a risk as a nurse. The comment about her lack of empathy was just an observation by her mentor. It is not why she failed. She was an incompetent student and likely an incompetent nurse. It still doesn't make her a murderer.

Estimated 237 ,million errors each year

Can and should.

Same here. The article claiming she talked about deaths in an “excited way” falls under the same category of people mis-remembering for 15mins of fame.

In context this comes to mind 1min 30 seconds is the point of interest :

@Mrsdoyler

If you were being honest you would have raised this:

Letby’s clinical knowledge was “not where it should be” and that she “struggled” to retain information over calculating dosages of drug medication and also to recognise side effects of common drugs.

That is why she failed as is abundantly outlined in the article you reluctantly included to make your point. Which actually disproved your point.

I'm not a Letby supporter - but I am equally not a supporter of the cauldron of hate that you are stoking on the basis of one line in a report. Be better.

Lots of people fail first time and it is difficult doing the practical and oral in front of examiners, quite nerve wracking. Many candidates adopt a neutral, deadpan manner to hide what they feel inside.

It is grossly unfair to drag this up now and, anyway, such reasons should be kept confidential.

No, my best friend is a heart surgeon who has zero empathy with patients, which is exactly why he is a superb surgeon, because he looks at the patients as a technical challenge and doesn't get wrapped up with emotions, makes for a first class medic but no bedside manner.

There is enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through with the Letby case, on the evidence presented I can't see how a jury could convict taking into account the need to eliminate reasonable doubt. I suspect it will be seen as a mis-carriage of justice later on.

Yep medication errors causing 712 deaths and contributing to a further 1,708 deaths per year.

Yeah I think it’s really hard to assess some of the facts without knowing the full context within the nursing profession. I mean maybe those things COULD happen to anyone, maybe they’re really not that remarkable. As an outsider I don’t have much sense of whether they’re significant or not. I can imagine failing a placement is quite common though? Med errors too.

Same with things like getting times wrong in notes written after the fact, taking handover notes home and not shredding them, etc. It all could be relatively normal, while bad practice, or it could be a major red flag.

I don’t believe most of the people who are so vocally certain one way or another really know any better than I do, unless they have solid knowledge about nursing in general and perhaps even about practice on Letbys ward in particular.

If I was being honest?

I simply quoted a news article.

And I left the article there for everyone to read it.

Why the obsession with this murderer?

What about the other news article today, that said she gave a child an incorrect overdose of medication, years before the deaths

Why wouldn't one of the convicted serial killers of our time, be in the news?

Yes, this too.

I've not read the article but does it outline exactly what medications errors are? A member of the public would probably automatically think it meant an incorrect medication or dosage had been given. Well I made a medication error a few weeks ago. The error? I accidentally double clicked a button instead of single clicking and it recorded the medication as having been administered twice. No way of deleting or amending it. The protocol classes this as a drug error.

but cherry picking to make a point does not make it a good one at times