Before I approach head with the request

[Number14]

Hi guys,

Just looking to gather some ideas/options before approaching head.

DS just started reception at siblings’ school. Reception kids finish 20 minutes earlier than other year groups. I.e Reception at 3.pm and other years at 3.20. DS has SEN (just reviewing his draft EHCP now). Major transition/sensory issues. His class teachers/other staff have seen his melt downs during pick up time e.g throwing himself on the floor, hitting me, throwing things, running onto road! On top of this - I have to wait 20 minutes in front of the school until sibling is let out. Cannot wait at reception - very small. I also have a 3 year old to deal with. Dad is at work but on off days he picks son up and brings him home before returning for his sibling. It has started to become really unsafe because the tiniest things can set him off and he runs off! And he gets so tired waiting.

I have thought about approaching school head re either letting him stay the 20 minutes in school or letting my DD go at the same time as him. DD is year 5 and says those 20 minutes are allocated for reading/getting ready to be dismissed. 3/5 days would be this format.

Am I being unreasonable? Any other option? Would they go along with it? Do I have a compelling case?

Thanks everyone!

A compelling case for speaking to the Head about some flexibility. It has nothing to do with the school taking responsibility for the child's safety - but they do need to make reasonable adjustments to cater for children with additional needs. Clearly you don't have children with SEN and therefore don't have to consider situations of this kind.

If DD is in Y5 can she not walk home on her own/with friends?

The set up the school has where you have to wait 20 minutes seems rediculous, there must be other people having to wait around and it makes no sense that you can't let them use the playground. I'd not be willing to make your daughter leave early every day because I do think it's unfair for her, it would be quite a lot of time missed over the week and the end of day reminders and things. But I understand how Annoying it would be. I'd try the double pram or something as well. It would be worth opening a conversation with the school but Im not sure how they can fix it because it would be your daughter who has to compromise and I don't think that's fair when it's not for her benefit.

As part of his EHCP planning put that he waits quietly in Reception of School (where kids whose parents are late go). If he stays in his current school, he could be accompanied by an LSA.

Alternatively, make a Routine Plan together for that time. If he understands what happens on those days, he may feel more capable to deal with it. He could also be shattered from his school day making shutdown or meltdowns more likely.

You cannot request waiting quietly in reception as part of the EHCP. That is not a section E outcome or Section F provision. You could suggest a section E outcome is that he has developed a routine of waiting safely during transitions. Section F school will support with provision via social stories, emotional regulation techniques, sensory circuits and a visual timetable.

I'm a primary teacher, we have similar instances in school where we have parents who pick up one child earlier than their release time to facilitate collecting another child. I've had similar in previous schools.too.

Sometimes there isn't a perfect solution and a best fit has to be found. Expecting another person to be available for an extra 20 mins for one child isn't feasible. There's no staff at my school at least for whom.every minute of their working day isn't accounted for with a responsibility already. But we would allow a child to be collected early.

In my class, the last 20 mins are spent reading the class story and collecting bags/getting ready to go. I have one child who is picked up 20 mins early every day for a similar reason and I make sure he has all the reminders/letters etc that he needs before he goes.

Speak to the Head.

A lot of schools introduced staggered end times after covid to reduce the number of people on the playground. Some found it worked better and kept it.

It also makes it easier when you have children using the same exits from.school - either doors or pathways.

Ours are staggerd by 10 mins which gives the reception children time to come out and be collected before their parents walk across the playground and pick up older children.

I suspect a lot.of whether it happens in individual schools or not depends on logistics and the building/layout.

I would speak to the head, I know of children that have gone early because of SEN.

In my experience HTs are always looking for things to change/do differently etc without necessarily thinking through the implications, in this case parents of older siblings having to wait around for too long with their reception age children.
Definitely push with HT for your DS to wait quietly inside with a TA to prevent behaviour problems later, it is a perfectly reasonable adjustment for a SEN child. Can you get something into the EHCP to reinforce this?

Your DS has an EHCP, so the school need to make reasonable adjustments.
In this case, the best scenario is that you pick up both children at the sane time. Discuss with Senco/head, they'll probably suggest your DD finishes early so you can go.
This really isn't that unusual and I don't see it being an issue.

In most schools nowadays, there isn't a TA available for 20 mins who would otherwise be twiddling their thumbs with nothing else to do.

It might work as a short term, interim solution but not a long term one.

Eg our TAs have responsibility for managing the children going to after school club before it officially starts, many work in the after school club, there are staff meetings straight after school to consider, some of our TAs run clubs, some have other work to do and the others stop being paid as per their contracts as soon as the children are dismissed and are free to leave. Many of them don't because they have preparation to do for the following day but this is also unpaid overtime from people who are abysmally paid anyway.

It's most likely that the HT would allow the older child to be collected early.

If you are at the stage of a draft EHCP, can it be reviewed with this problem in mind? For example, if he is assigned one to one TA time, can part of this be for these 20m after school?

Also requesting that your older DD leaves straight through reception, rather than lining up in the playground, should shorten the wait.

We had a staggered time during covid but it was just a ten minute window where you could collect or drop off.

Now we’re back to norma. I just collect one child and then walk round the corner or playground etc to get the other. Takes all of 2 mins.

20 mins is ridiculous. I could have walked home by that time 🤣

I will agree 20 mins seems quite long but it depends on the school and ease of access mainly. The implications will have been considered at the point of implementation. They must have just felt it was right for them.

Unless the school covers a mile wide radius they don’t need 20 minutes. The OP has even said it’s about children being too tired to stay til then which is just odd. Hanging about for that long doesn’t sound like they have considered the implications of parents who have more than one child.

And would you then, as a senior leader, go to the reception class on time and every day to relieve the reception teacher/ ta so that they could start their after school tasks? Planning, attending planning meetings, record keeping, updating / uploading evidence for childrens folders and attainment folders, sorting resources, preparing resources, tidying the book area/ home corner, speaking to other parents, making phone calls , liaising with other reception teachers, turning up on time to staff meetings or in service training? That ten minutes equates to nearly an hour of the teachers after school time a week, if they also have home responsibilities, or even if they don’t , that is an additional pressure that is being imposed.

I’m lost as to why so many think this is unreasonable. It’s a standard request - reasonable adjustment for SEN.

I think it is worth asking the school. It is a reasonable adjustment to help your child and you. They may well say yes!

I would talk to the school about your difficulties and see what their thoughts are. The bottom line is as a parent you have a responsibility to do what's right for both your children. I think your older one would be quite self conscious about going 20 mins before her peers everyday, and frankly it would be a pain for her teacher to have to work this in. However given that your little one is a pupil of the school and it is their set up that creates this (ludicrously long) waiting time each day, I think it is fair to pose the problem to them and ask for help with an answer.

Clearly a meeting with the school is necessary and adjustments made. My DC was the same and it got to the stage when half days were suggested/only option. Since then we were very fortunate to find a specialist school and the difference has been beyond amazing 👏

The SEN kids at our school leave15 mins early. Just ask, if it’s going to help him stay calm they will probably agree. For God’s sake, don’t take a scooter. You won’t be allowed to use it in school grounds and trying to deal with an SEN kid in a meltdown and one on a wheels is asking for an RTA!!!!

Just no! Siblings of disabled children are forever being expected to give up things to suit the sibling's needs. Missing school is not OK. They matter too. I have a child with a disability and it is really important to keep other children in the family in mind too.

@Arran2024
Tbh, 20 mins home time difference is ridiculous but doubt much learning time will be missed, but it's a discussion to have with the head, a lot of that time will be packing up, getting ready for home.

Yes, but it sets a precedence for whose needs are most important and it isn't just end of school, it's everything else on top. And wind down time is important - it is where kids will get reminders from staff, get to chat to friends on the way out, see friends' parents etc. Alternative for this child is to leave early to pick up sibling and walk home with him and mum....how sad.

That! It's hard enough being a sibling of a child with special needs. Expecting DD to miss out on an hour of class time a week, and be 'different' from the rest of her class is entirely unfair. OP says that she's already struggling because of her brother. It would be entirely selfish to make her do this, and detrimental to DD's relationships with her classmates, OP, AND her brother.

I wouldn't countenance it.