Page 5 | Before I approach head with the request

Number14 · 2024-10-16T15:44:20+00:00

Hi guys, Just looking to gather some ideas/options before approaching head. DS just started reception at siblings’ school. Reception kids finish 20 minutes earlier than other year groups. I.e Reception at 3.pm and other years at 3.20. DS has SEN (just reviewing his draft EHCP now). Major transition/sensory issues. His class teachers/other staff have seen his melt downs during pick up time e.g throwing himself on the floor, hitting me, throwing things, running onto road! On top of this - I have to wait 20 minutes in front of the school until sibling is let out. Cannot wait at reception - very small. I also have a 3 year old to deal with. Dad is at work but on off days he picks son up and brings him home before returning for his sibling. It has started to become really unsafe because the tiniest things can set him off and he runs off! And he gets so tired waiting. I have thought about approaching school head re either letting him stay the 20 minutes in school or letting my DD go at the same time as him. DD is year 5 and says those 20 minutes are allocated for reading/getting ready to be dismissed. 3/5 days would be this format. Am I being unreasonable? Any other option? Would they go along with it? Do I have a compelling case? Thanks everyone!

cansu · 16/10/2024 20:21

I would ask. They can only say no.

itsgettingweird · 16/10/2024 20:24

their view is that reception kids can’t handle the extra time. Too tired.

So their solution is to have them standing around outside in all weathers instead?!

They would be better off laying down to a meditation tape for 15 minutes if tired and then packing up!

I think you do need to approach the school. They need to make RA for your DS. And if that's not to wait 20 minutes for just year R by letting his sister go early that seems like a good solution.

Either that or do you have someone else DD1 could walk home with?

fashionqueen0123 · 16/10/2024 20:25

This the weirdest collection I’ve ever heard of and I’ve worked at/with loads of schools and different children and my own. They always all finish at the same time.

Reception kids finishing 20 mins before?! Why?? That’s just stupid. I’d go and wait in their office. What are you supposed to do for 20 minutes! And if it’s raining?

I would ask them to keep him for 20 minutes as that’s the time his sister comes out 🤷🏼‍♀️

Gagaandgag · 16/10/2024 20:26

I guess they stagger the times so it doesn’t get too crowded

Choochoo21 · 16/10/2024 20:28

I wouldn’t definitely ask if DD can be let out early, even if it’s just 10mins.

Jessie1259 · 16/10/2024 20:30

I would ask if dd can leave early as I doubt anyone would would be able to look after ds. I remember a child in ds's class leaving early for tennis lessons! so it's not impossible. Especially if all they do is read quietly and get their coats at that time.

Motherofdragons20 · 16/10/2024 20:34

I like the idea of him sitting in the buggy, if he would do that you could get a cheap second hand double for DS and 3yo, bring his tablet (if he has one) and let him chill in that with a snack while yous wait. Let others judge if they want, you do what you must to keep everyone safe.

Longma · 16/10/2024 20:55

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Longma · 16/10/2024 20:57

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Original poster

Number14 · 16/10/2024 21:12

harmonyhannah · 16/10/2024 20:18

As the mother of four, now adult, children, two with special needs, I really do know and understand. One of my children had similar issues to your son and reading your post reminded me of the primary school days (now aged 30 he can still be the same way). However one thing I have learn from those times is to never make one child's "special" needs trump another child's "ordinary" needs. My NT children, now adults too, have had a difficult enough time in school as the siblings of "those special kids" and would have hated anything else to make them stand out, for example leaving earlier. My daughter would have hated this so much and would only have strengthened the other children's taunts.

I hope it can be rectified with the school. My grandchildren's primary school has a slightly different home time for every year. However, please do not change your daughter's routine. I know it is hard for you and please don't think I am not sympathetic, I am, but as parents we are supposed to manage and cope with these (nightmarish) things. It is not your daughter's job to make things easier for her younger siblings or indeed her parents. I have re-read my words and really hope they have not come across unkindly, but I hope you can find a way without changing your daughter's schedule. Oh she may well say she doesn't mind, my daughter often said she did not mind either... but she did and was putting our needs before her own. No child should be responsible for that. Good luck.

Thank you, I am going to take on board everything you said. Actually, DD1 often says she is embarrassed by him. She loves him but she says she hates his meltdowns because everyone is looking at them and takes longer to get home and she is tired etc etc. She feels self-conscious. That is why I feel she will be open to it but may also hate getting out of class early. I try to be equal between them e.g DD1 regularly says why doesn’t he do homework everyday? Why don’t you give him consequences, get him to tidy. I do these things with him but it’s hit or miss. Nothing you said comes across as unkind and everyone has been really keen to give me great ideas. It is very very hard but I love him so so much and he is doing so well. I just want to make things easier for him and me. I will first try everything mentioned and also speak to head about any and all options. Who knows? Maybe they are willing to keep him in for the 20 minutes if I paid. Whatever is decided I would not continue with any if I see it affect DS or my other children in negative way.

OP posts:

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:16

Number14 · 16/10/2024 19:56

Your anger is misplaced. They would not be on their own. Teachers are still in class. Also schools are really strict about who is on premises for safeguarding and health safety reasons. You have to sign in and sign - if there was a fire no one would know you are there! Did you miss my post about how I will be requesting if I can stay in the reception area? We cannot even do that because it blocks the fire exit. Seriously, you are just angry. Calm down - you are a winner! I tell this to my DS and it calms him. Hope it works on you too.

Many have suggested great ideas from returning the double buggy to ipads to DD walking home. I will be trialling everything to see what works.

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They wouldn't be on their own if their parent was there who can be. There is no reason why the parent cannot supervise within the school until the older child finishes.

Teachers are not always in the room at all, they are working and doing their jobs - so by all means stay in the room but it is your responsibility to care for your child while in there.

Schools let parents inside....it is allowed. So if you stay in reception then the teachers can leave and get on with their jobs.

I'm not angry....but hey, hope you assuming works to make you feel better.

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:22

Bex5490 · 16/10/2024 19:50

@schmeler I’m slightly confused - when did I call you lazy?

I specifically said I wouldn’t force a class teacher to do this but would do it myself if that was the only solution to help. Your comments about parents should have to pay etc. just seem a little uncaring.

The school (not necessarily the individual teacher) should want to help and support a family like the OP’s. What is your issue with that?

Edited

When you suggested that teachers who do not get directed past 3:30 are not able to teach to a decent standard....suggesting that they do no work after 3:30.

Why is it uncaring for parents to have to pay - it is their child! Why should staff pay for someone else's child? That really isn't ok and certainly not caring at all.

Why do they need to help when the parent is there to care for the child themselves? Seems really illogical to 'help' babysit while mum sits in her car?!

Bex5490 · 16/10/2024 21:36

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:22

When you suggested that teachers who do not get directed past 3:30 are not able to teach to a decent standard....suggesting that they do no work after 3:30.

Why is it uncaring for parents to have to pay - it is their child! Why should staff pay for someone else's child? That really isn't ok and certainly not caring at all.

Why do they need to help when the parent is there to care for the child themselves? Seems really illogical to 'help' babysit while mum sits in her car?!

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To clarify, if you thought I was calling you lazy…I wasn’t.

I’ve been teaching for 15 years and know teachers are definitely not lazy.

I’m also the safeguarding lead at my school so a large part of my job is supporting and making adjustments for struggling and vulnerable families.

I don’t think the OP is asking for babysitting so she can sit in the car - she’s asking for help. Which as a school (or leader or teacher) we should want to give. That’s why we work with kids. I’m sure that’s why you became a teacher in the first place.

Not all families can afford to pay for after school childcare. Support for SEN and low income families is in the gutter. If schools don’t use the resources they have available to help these families then who will?

I would say that the issue with education now is that teachers are so over worked with all the other rubbish that something like this - something where our time should be spent - feels unreasonable.

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:54

Bex5490 · 16/10/2024 21:36

To clarify, if you thought I was calling you lazy…I wasn’t.

I’ve been teaching for 15 years and know teachers are definitely not lazy.

I’m also the safeguarding lead at my school so a large part of my job is supporting and making adjustments for struggling and vulnerable families.

I don’t think the OP is asking for babysitting so she can sit in the car - she’s asking for help. Which as a school (or leader or teacher) we should want to give. That’s why we work with kids. I’m sure that’s why you became a teacher in the first place.

Not all families can afford to pay for after school childcare. Support for SEN and low income families is in the gutter. If schools don’t use the resources they have available to help these families then who will?

I would say that the issue with education now is that teachers are so over worked with all the other rubbish that something like this - something where our time should be spent - feels unreasonable.

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You literally said when do they look at the kids work or plan lessons etc because you said that if staff only work during their directed time (which I never said that is the only time they work at all, that was your assumption) then you question the quality of their teaching. You literally said they do not work outside of directed time. Implying that when undirected then teachers do not do.

My point is that by all means staff can offer but I think it is rude when parents expect it when they can do it themselves!

I agree not all families can afford to pay for childcare so why are you assuming that it is ok for some to pay as a result of someone else? Support for SEN doesn't mean that we ignore staff needs either (you do realise many themselves have SEN and have been masking all day themselves).

Yes they are overworked with requests for things that can be solved without staff having to forfeit their own money, time and wellbeing. It should be fair on everyone not taking from teachers all the time with no giving in return.

fashionqueen0123 · 16/10/2024 21:56

Number14 · 16/10/2024 17:16

My sentiments exactly!!! Like why??? …their view is that reception kids can’t handle the extra time. Too tired.

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What extra time?! It’s just a normal school day.
Ive never heard anything like this. How have parents not all complained.

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:59

Bex5490 · 16/10/2024 21:36

To clarify, if you thought I was calling you lazy…I wasn’t.

I’ve been teaching for 15 years and know teachers are definitely not lazy.

I’m also the safeguarding lead at my school so a large part of my job is supporting and making adjustments for struggling and vulnerable families.

I don’t think the OP is asking for babysitting so she can sit in the car - she’s asking for help. Which as a school (or leader or teacher) we should want to give. That’s why we work with kids. I’m sure that’s why you became a teacher in the first place.

Not all families can afford to pay for after school childcare. Support for SEN and low income families is in the gutter. If schools don’t use the resources they have available to help these families then who will?

I would say that the issue with education now is that teachers are so over worked with all the other rubbish that something like this - something where our time should be spent - feels unreasonable.

Show quote history

I am safeguarding lead too and part of my training never said to babysit kids with SEND after school when parents are available.

It is about supporting them not doing it for them.

turkeymuffin · 16/10/2024 22:05

saraclara · 16/10/2024 17:49

I wouldn’t see a problem with your daughter being collected at the same time as her brother for a maximum of two and a half terms

Really? I suspect that the DD would. This is really not fair on her. It must be difficult enough having an autistic brother whose needs have to come first, without being 'othered' from her classmates and missing nearly two hours of learning a week

This.

How do you get to school?

Can your Y5 leave school on her own and either walk home or to the car where you're waiting with him siblings & snacks & books to keep them entertained.

NewName24 · 16/10/2024 22:17

saraclara · 16/10/2024 20:04

When the children went home, I didn't remain in the classroom all the time. I was busy gathering resources from different parts of the school, photocopying, making phone calls to parents, discussing things with other teachers... The list of things that took me from my room, or couldn't be done in front of a pupil, was endless.

Likewise my head and deputy were at their busiest and least likely to be in their offices at that time of day, as at least one of them would be monitoring the end of the day routine, and that would be the time that parents or staff were most likely to come in with problems or queries.

Your school and its teachers sounds very unusual if you are all able to sit in your rooms with a pupil for 20 minutes, and yet still get things done.

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This is what I was going to say.

@Bex5490 you must work in a very unusual school if your teachers have time to childmind a child with significant additional needs for 20mins after school every day.

I would also add treating yourself to your first cup of coffee and even going for a wee for the first time in hours.

I would OTOH, be very happy for the OP to come into my classroom and be responsible for her ds, in his familiar surroundings after school each day, on the understanding that (after my wee and making a brew) I might be working in the room too, or I might not be in the room, or, most likely there would be a mix of the two.

Original poster

Number14 · 16/10/2024 22:18

schmeler · 16/10/2024 21:16

They wouldn't be on their own if their parent was there who can be. There is no reason why the parent cannot supervise within the school until the older child finishes.

Teachers are not always in the room at all, they are working and doing their jobs - so by all means stay in the room but it is your responsibility to care for your child while in there.

Schools let parents inside....it is allowed. So if you stay in reception then the teachers can leave and get on with their jobs.

I'm not angry....but hey, hope you assuming works to make you feel better.

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You sound like you’re one of those people that just want to say no for the sake of no, you want people to take the hard way even if an easy option is available. You don’t acknowledge that they may be schools/teachers open to supporting parents in this way because in your eyes it is beyond the requirement. You have posters telling you repeatedly they would do it, their school makes allowances etc etc and you still refuse to accept it. It appears you do not really
care for the plight of teachers just need an outlet to showcase your insecurities and be one of those who disagree on any matter just because you can. You didn’t even acknowledge all my posts about willing to consider all the other ideas that do not involve getting the teacher to look after DS those extra 20 mins or even pay for it if that is an option. Every school has different policies. Stop acting like a smart Alec. Your rigid stance and unwillingness to be open minded to finding innovative solutions is quite sad…

OP posts:

NewName24 · 16/10/2024 22:19

Although, like so many others, I can't understand why the school thinks it is a good idea to have a 20min gap between different year groups finishing would ever be a good idea.
I can't understand why there aren't dozens and dozens of families saying it is ridiculous

Original poster

Number14 · 16/10/2024 22:22

turkeymuffin · 16/10/2024 22:05

This.

How do you get to school?

Can your Y5 leave school on her own and either walk home or to the car where you're waiting with him siblings & snacks & books to keep them entertained.

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Things are a bit smoother in the morning. DH helps me drop them off by car. Has arrangement with work to come in 1 hour later.

OP posts:

schmeler · 16/10/2024 22:31

Number14 · 16/10/2024 22:18

You sound like you’re one of those people that just want to say no for the sake of no, you want people to take the hard way even if an easy option is available. You don’t acknowledge that they may be schools/teachers open to supporting parents in this way because in your eyes it is beyond the requirement. You have posters telling you repeatedly they would do it, their school makes allowances etc etc and you still refuse to accept it. It appears you do not really
care for the plight of teachers just need an outlet to showcase your insecurities and be one of those who disagree on any matter just because you can. You didn’t even acknowledge all my posts about willing to consider all the other ideas that do not involve getting the teacher to look after DS those extra 20 mins or even pay for it if that is an option. Every school has different policies. Stop acting like a smart Alec. Your rigid stance and unwillingness to be open minded to finding innovative solutions is quite sad…

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Quite the opposite! I say yes to far too many things to help out but do not like the piss being taken. I do not see how babysitting is supporting parents - it is doing what they can do themselves.

Let them in the class by all means or a quiet space (as I already suggested) but for staff to babysit...no way!

How about you start supporting those with SEND yourself...seems like it only works one way!

schmeler · 16/10/2024 22:35

Number14 · 16/10/2024 22:18

You sound like you’re one of those people that just want to say no for the sake of no, you want people to take the hard way even if an easy option is available. You don’t acknowledge that they may be schools/teachers open to supporting parents in this way because in your eyes it is beyond the requirement. You have posters telling you repeatedly they would do it, their school makes allowances etc etc and you still refuse to accept it. It appears you do not really
care for the plight of teachers just need an outlet to showcase your insecurities and be one of those who disagree on any matter just because you can. You didn’t even acknowledge all my posts about willing to consider all the other ideas that do not involve getting the teacher to look after DS those extra 20 mins or even pay for it if that is an option. Every school has different policies. Stop acting like a smart Alec. Your rigid stance and unwillingness to be open minded to finding innovative solutions is quite sad…

Show quote history

My rigid stance....you mean, you do not make allowances for those with SEND?
Not insecurities.....needs!

Oh I have read the replies and many are good....my issue is the one that expects staff to babysit for nothing and it cost them time and money and their wellbeing. That is my issue.

fashionqueen0123 · 16/10/2024 22:52

NewName24 · 16/10/2024 22:19

Although, like so many others, I can't understand why the school thinks it is a good idea to have a 20min gap between different year groups finishing would ever be a good idea.
I can't understand why there aren't dozens and dozens of families saying it is ridiculous

I’ve never heard of it before. Utterly bizarre. I know the parents at our school wouldn’t put up with it. Thankfully our HT isn’t that weird to invent something like that!

Original poster

Number14 · 16/10/2024 22:54

NewName24 · 16/10/2024 22:19

Although, like so many others, I can't understand why the school thinks it is a good idea to have a 20min gap between different year groups finishing would ever be a good idea.
I can't understand why there aren't dozens and dozens of families saying it is ridiculous

I think I mentioned in my original post that it is only Reception that finish earlier. So reception 3pm and Y1-Y6 3.20. Many are annoyed but speaking to them none care to make a big deal out of it. Most of the kids are ok to stand around, eat a snack and play (there has been few incidents of hitting but dealt with quickly) the parents just stand around and chat. It is one of those things that if you are not happy then move. These days parents don’t get much say in much things.

As an aside. I know how pressured teachers are, how they are not well paid and their well being are suffering because for them work never stops at school - it goes home. I understand that children are hard work and everyday their resources are dwindling leaving them mentally and physically exhausted. I will not be demanding anything from them. I will only be enquiring to see if they happy to come up with a plan with me.

OP posts: