So no extra funding for MH conditions or eating disorders just weight loss jabs!

[Gr3ySkies]

It’s nuts!

So many people struggling with quite severe MH conditions on massive waiting lists getting nothing.

People dying of EDS. Because there are no inpatient beds and huge waits for treatment but apparantly we can fund weight loss jabs to anybody who wants them. 🤔

Even though we know very little about the long term impact.

That’s the whole point of the trial to determine outcomes and whether cost is exceeded by positive outcome or whether it doesn’t so an informed decision can be taken about potential wider roll out or not.

No, you asserted it's pointless to treat obese people since they might just become obese again. I'm highlighting the utter inanity of that "logic".

This ⬆️

DHSC/NHSE don’t make moral decisions, it’s all about population health modelling and projection with a healthy dose of health economics.

Also op also doesn’t seem to understand what a clinical trial is.

Again, there is a maintenance dose so a huge amount will, and they will know they will , due to cross over from diabetics. You need to remember medication like this has been available for decades. It’s not new. What is new is it being licensed for weight loss.

the point of the unemployed trial is to see what percentage get back to employment, and come off benefits, is there a net cost saving to the country in terms of benefit reduction and reduction in nhs costs. If there is they will role it out further, if not they will knock it on the head,

if this drug costs the nhs a 100 a month and you get say 20 percent of them off benefits, on say an average of 1000 a month, you save the country a lot of money, and that’s before you factor in the reduction of nhs resource costs from blood pressure meds to hospital beds,

No I didn’t, you are being over sensitive, I only said we don’t yet know, it’s too early to claim it will save money.

We do know.

At what cost and who pays?

No we don’t! Where’s the long term evidence? Hopefully this study will provide some and it will be interesting to see the results. I hope it does work, but I’m not going to get ahead of myself.

I.do.believe people with eating disorders would.benefit from counselling and hypnotherapy. It would be a good holistic approach. My friends GP trialled a free gym membership for overweight patients. My friend lost 3 stone in a few months. He looked fantastic. This would be better for people than these injections that seem impossible to get! My other friend was on these injections for a year because of being overweight with diabetes, she hasn't been able to get any more for the past few months!

clearly if it’s prescribed by the nhs it will be the nhs. I am not sure if cost, but likely 100 or less a month, which is going to save the nhs billions in other obesity related illnesses, from the meds to the beds.

and if you can help people get off benefits, then that also saves a huge amount.

it’s a win win, I’m not sure why some people are so resentful over it. It’s a huge breakthrough, we can now relatively low cost treat obesity. And for life.

I'm not remotely "sensitive" about anything.

how do we know those people won’t pile the weight straight back on again if the root cause isn’t being addressed

This is what you said.

I made no claim at all about this definitely saving money. My point is that if you consider obesity a problem (and lets face it, it would be rather odd to insist it isn't), then you are going to achieve absolutely nothing by refusing to treat it because 1. it costs money, and 2. it isn't a guaranteed permanent solution.

If those are your qualifiers, then there is no justifying treating any form of illness, because most treatments cost money, and there is no guarantee that person will never become ill again just because you paid for their treatment once already.

Because not all obesity is caused by mental health?
For a lot of people its determined by chemical imbalances and inappropriate levels of hunger hormones etc.
And unfortunately there are far far far more people affected by obesity than by eating disorders such as anorexia and bulimia, so where resources are scarce they've chosen to allocate them in an area that can positively impact more people.
Unfortunately in the UK now there is so much need and so many people not working and not contributing to the economy, there are not enough resources to go around

They are freely available? Even Asda sells them.

It's because whilst people are fat they can look down their nose and judge them. They have the moral superiority of being able to think that they are better because they didn't let themselves get fat

The majority of Mumsnet hates fat people, but also hates when people do something about it. The only acceptable way is cutting out all carbs, starving yourself and going to the gym for hours every day. If you didn't torture yourself to lose weight then you cheated

If you treat obesity effectively with injections then you will reduce the need for diabetes treatment, heart disease treatment, hip and knee replacements, bariatric surgery etc. It has the potential to save the NHS money overall - money that could then be put into other areas like mental health.

Obesity can cause mental health issues so treating obesity will potentially reduce the demand on mental health services and free up resources for others.

You don't know the full details OPs response sounds like a knew jerk response to a headline without knowing the full picture.
Sadly this is something that is done more and more now. People making snap judgements after reading a headline

Yes, because we don’t know, that’s different to me claiming they will put the weight back on. You’ve misinterpreted what I said.

It's not ridiculous. There are many health conditions that have huge wait lists, need funding and need solutions. EDs are one of them, obesity is another. Neither are more important than the other. This trial is a good thing, it shows investment in the health service and will hopefully provide a reasonably easy and relatively cheap solution to some conditions.

I haven't misinterpreted anything. You questioned the point of this because people might put the weight back on.

I did gym.
I did slimming world.
I did hypnosis
I did CBT
I did 'food therapy' which is basically showing you photos of an apple and chips and them asking which is better for you, seriously.
I did weight watchers.
I did slim shakes
I did overeaten anonymous

I did it all.

This is the first thing (mounjaro) that's given me hope to recover.

Yes ok, how dare I suggest that we should hold off claiming this WILL save the NHS money when we have no idea of the long term outcomes, how very fatphobic of me, clearly I think there should be no help at all. 🙄

Or you could try to actually understand the point someone is trying to make rather than telling them what they think.

It could also save a fortune which is why there is a trial to find out.
If there is an equivalent drug treatment for solving other eating disorders that should be trialled too. But realistically Lilly are lot going to be putting money into funding mental health care. An overall saving on treating obesity related illness could be redirected but this is going to take years.

i'm not 'fat' because i have mental health issues tyvm. i'm fat because my skeleton is busted and i can't walk/move, and i take meds that cause weight gain to combat the crushing pain i'm in 24/7 because my skeleton is busted.

Not everyone is obese because they have MH issues, some of us have physical disabilities and access to those injections to help us lose the weight that is a side effect of other shit we have going on physically might drastically improve our health in other ways.

Why is there this assumption in people like you that we need counselling for an ED to lose weight... most of us are well fucking aware of why we're obese, we don't need therapy to fix it.

I’m self funding weight loss jabs. Cost to me is around £200 per month. NHS will have negotiated much less.

How much would it cost to treat the mental health causes of my obesity? Significantly more! The NHS spends money on a cost/benefit scenario so, if it’s cheaper to fund weight loss injections than to fund the diseases related to obesity they’ll do it. It’s pretty much as simple as that.

A quick google search tells me that almost 30% of the uk adult population is obese. That has massive costs to the NHS. Another search tells me that less than 1% have anorexia nervosa and around 1% with Bulimia. Anorexia nervosa has the lowest recovery rate of any other mental illness.

There may be swathes of funding being put into these two illnesses but they won’t get the publicity because so few people suffer from. But it’s likely that it isn’t because the cost to the NHS is so much less.

Obesity related issues are expected to be the biggest cost to the NHS so perhaps if we treat this with weight loss injections it might free up funds to use elsewhere.

Have you secret access to government policy to know what their plans are re CAMHS ? Give them a chance. Do you realistically expect them to solve all the ills of the NHS in 6 months or even a year ? Tories had 14 years to dismantle everything but Labour have to solve the situation in 12 weeks. Ludicrous.