So no extra funding for MH conditions or eating disorders just weight loss jabs!

[Gr3ySkies]

It’s nuts!

So many people struggling with quite severe MH conditions on massive waiting lists getting nothing.

People dying of EDS. Because there are no inpatient beds and huge waits for treatment but apparantly we can fund weight loss jabs to anybody who wants them. 🤔

Even though we know very little about the long term impact.

It will be so much cheaper than treating people for cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc, billions.

You’re right in that mental health services should be improved, but across the board, to people with eating disorders, obesity, anxiety, neurodivergence etc.

But that isn’t going to happen soon so I think a trial of 3000 people seems a reasonable idea. I think helping people to lose weight and find employment would be a boost to their mental health and would perhaps be a kickstart to them seeking therapy of some kind.

Going solely down the MH treatment route doesn't have the same cost/savings benefit. Also providing the MH support, without fixing the society wide issues surrounding obesity won't work.

It would be a case of chucking money down a bottomless pit, unless it's coupled with a complete overhaul of our food and drink laws. There simply isn't the public backing for those reforms.

The drugs are expensive right now because they are still under patent. This is what drives the development of new treatments. The companies developing them require patent protection in order to actually make a profit and make their research worthwhile.

The patents are time limited and will expire, at which point the drugs become generic, and should be much cheaper. This is why Ibuprofen used to cost a fortune when it first launched but can be bought for literal pennies now in highstreet shops.

You can't make any claims about cost in any case until you know scale and qualifiers. This is still years away, even if it is adopted as policy, which I'm sceptical about if I'm honest.

What is your proposed alternative. We have decades of research showing that no alternative solution exists and all other available methods are routinely failing. As much as people want to believe that maintaining weight is simply the case of eating less and moving more, it is far more complex than that and is linked to many biopsychosocial factors which we simply can't fix easily and cheaply.
What is sticking plaster on the obesity problem is things like controlling advertising and taxing sugar. There is zero evidence that this is having any positive effect. For once, I am delighted to see a research project being funded before rushing into yet another ineffectual policy.

Great the weight loss jabs help you have a better attitude towards food to eat better but there is no jab for those who restrict their food.

I’m surprised at how many people resent the fact we can now tackle the obesity crisis. There is another thread where someone feels jealous and cheated as she works hard to be slim, a few others agreed. Now the op resents it, as she wants more money spent on mental health instead. To leave the obese to crack on with it, and the billions in associated costs the nhs pays in line with it.

its met with anger from some, which I find surprising.

I rather feel we can give the OP all the facts and figures, statistical analysis and budget impact models in the world.

but their anger here will not allow any of those pieces of evidence or rationale to change their entrenched position on this.

This.

Tou worded it much better than me.
It's a fantastic tool.

Another fat shaming, ignorant thread. 🙄 @Gr3ySkies What makes you think (I use this loosely as you obviously don't) exposing your prejudice and ignorance is in anyway helpful?

The current system is patently unfair. Why don't you have a problem with that?

We don't actually know yet what labour are going to do with MH provision.

And this is just a proposed trial which could potentially help save millions if not billions in healthcare and benefits.

So potentially more money for the NHS including MH services.

it's not either/or. It's not that one thing takes away money from another.

edit to correct spelling

Except how do we know those people won’t pile the weight straight back on again if the root cause isn’t being addressed, in which case, it won’t save us anything, it will only cost us more.

Because you can take a maintenance dose.

That's the point of the trial..

My friend is 5ft1 and 23st
She's out of work for various reasons, including fibromyalgia. She doesn't leave the house. She's so depressed and is on the NHS waiting list for gastric surgery.
She needs to lose 5% to qualify and she's not lost a single pound.

I know if she was prescribed these jabs they would change her life and in the long run save the NHS thousands in all the other obesity related issues she has! Not to mention the £10k gastric sleeve surgery!

Jags aren't funded for anything, anywhere within the the NHS on the basis of want. They must be prescribed within specific protocols by a GP. To see a GP is a task in itself. Your entire perception of how access to these injections works is completely wrong.

And I agree with that, I’m just saying we shouldn’t be claiming it will save us money before we know.

I think more it’s to see if people get back into employment and off benefits.

the point of the medication is to help you lose weight, it’s not a quick fix, to do so you need to change your eating habits, relearn , your stomach also shrinks as you lose weight, making you naturally full longer.

for those who may still struggle, then there is a low maintenance dose you can take to keep your weight down, proven safe, diabetics use it.

so as much as a small percentage will bounce back, or not complete the treatment, I’ve read it on a couple of threads on here, a handful who want to give up, who feel their lives are dull without the food and drink, the vast majority are paying for it privately and if you stick to it, it’s clearly going to be a way to manage your weight for life.

In America obesity levels have dropped for the first time in years. Apparently 3% of the population are taking weight loss medication so that shows a positive impact.

You're looking at it on an individual level OP....it sounds like you think it's about who 'deserves' treatment more. Putting aside the moral/ethical arguments against that, it is in any case simply not how public health funding decisions are made. Obesity and related conditions of the heart, kidneys, metabolic system etc. are on track to become the biggest healthcare crisis the world has ever seen, and the biggest drain on healthcare resources. Tackling obesity head on, medically, properly, is a huge leap forward for healthcare overall.

Yes it shouldn't mean zero investment in other areas, but nobody has yet declared that it does. Money can be spent in both areas, but to imply that this area isn't worthy of investment is short-sighted.

How do we know people who are successfully treated for cancers wont just develop some other cancer further down the line?

Might as well leave people with a broken leg untreated lest they break the other one at some point.

That’s the whole point of a trial to test whether it works. Lots of stages to go through to determine if it is successful and measure scale of potential benefits. Cost of this is actually relatively low as a clinical trial with only 3000 participants and by no means guaranteed a positive outcome to support additional role out.

Tackling NH will cost far more than this trial and require total overhaul of the services and its structure - something which can’t happen overnight even if they did throw unlimited funds at it - the biggest hurdle is finding sufficient qualified staff - they are a finite limited resource.

Not really, it’s early days, we don’t know if those people will keep the weight off.

Are you seriously comparing cancer to eating too much?

OP, I think having a child with anorexia must be one of the most painful, frustrating, heartbreaking and sad things in the world. It would make me incredibly angry too.

Kicking out against other people is not going to help your daughter. 💐