issues with lodger

[lodger]

Hi

Hoping for a bit of clarity and in need of a chat about my lodger. He's only been
here for a few weeks but ive found it challenging having someone in my home space. Tonight he bought back a friend with no prior warning and occupied the kitchen space and cooked for friend and they both ate at the table, chatting away. I found it quite rude to not give me the heads up that he was bringing a guest back and cooking dinner. I had to make my dinner then leave the kitchen as they were clearly chatting and eating and I felt like a third wheel. He is my lodger and I find this quite rude. Am I being unreasonable in expecting him to tell me that he's bringing a friend home? He also makes very loud phone calls alot of the time and hooks his calls up to an external speaker so that I can hear his conversations very clearly. his room is above mine. Again I find this quite disrespectful. Some viewpoints would be handy. Im not used to having people in my home and I lost my husband last year to cancer so its a big deal to have someone living in my space. Its an adjustment

When I first started working in London in my 20s, I lodged Mon-Fri with a lovely Jewish family in North London for a year. I had a really lovely bedroom, small sitting room and ensuite which I paid absolute pennies for (considering this was a gorgeous townhouse in a very smart part of town).

We had a very good relationship based on mutual understanding and trust: the reason I mention that they were Jewish was because while they weren't Orthodox, they did keep a kosher kitchen and were initially a bit nervous about having a non-Jewish lodger (not a problem for me, because I was vegetarian at the time).

I generally travelled home to Scotland on a Friday, but on the odd occasion I was around, I was invited to join them for Shabbat, which was lovely, and my OH and I were invited as special guests to their middle son's Bar Mitvah.

15 years later, we are still good friends - in fact, that middle son is coming to stay with us next week, as he has a job interview in Edinburgh! - but I was very, very respectful of their house and during my time there, was very cognisant of the fact that it was their house, their rules. I was a lodger, not a tenant, and essentially a sort of paying guest.

Lodging can be brilliant or awful, but it's very important to set and manage expectations from day one.

Thank you @lodger , your set-up sounds very generous, I would have been very happy with that! And given he has his own living room, he has somewhere to entertain his guests so your wish for him to eat his meals with his guest in his living room makes perfect sense. Snack/breakfast by himself in the kitchen maybe okay. You have been very accommodating, I hope you get the best outcome when you speak to him.

There is a contract. An oral contract is as valid as a written one, - but obviously won't contain careful details. The point is, there is a contract.

A quick google search shows lots of examples of lodger guidelines that people have drafted.

I'm glad if it proves helpful. I often find that we can't quite think of the right approach, the right phrases, and it helps to have an example.

I don't know for how long the lease is, but I was wondering if you might do better with a woman lodger. Especially if you choose someone a bit younger than you. Or, if you continue with this, maybe you'll evolve a list of issues that you will discuss up-front when you interview people.

Good luck.

I’m sorry to hear you have lost your husband and I can understand why this is hard.

But you’ve made a mistake not having a written contract and ideally you should get one agreed and signed now , although there’s not a lot you can do if he refuses. Yes technically there is a verbal contact but good luck if you have to rely on that.

Legallly a lodger shares common spaces with you - I’m guessing that’s only the kitchen , as he has his own bathroom and living room . He has as much right as you to use the kitchen if that’s what you have agreed - he doesn’t need to ask you the same as you don’t need ask him. You can’t tell him it’s not his space too.

what have you agreed about the cleaning of shared spaces - do you have a cleaner ?

Is there a dining table and chairs in his living room and in yours ? That might encourage both of you to eat your meals in there and not in the kitchen.

If you and your lodger DONT share common spaces and his place is self contained then he’s a tenant and you are in a whole other legal situation, he has rights of tenure and you need to pay income tax on the rent etc . So it’s not just a technical difference , it’s really important about shared common spaces, it’s one aspect of being a lodger ( as is providing other service like cleaning or laundry , which is why I ask ).

You need to register him for council tax and on the electoral roll at your address - yes that’s your job as the householder . Of course you can no longer claim any single adult discount ( if you have been doing so ) .

You may need to tell your mortgage company - Check your loan agreement very carefully as you REALLY dont want to breach this.

You will also need to tell your house insurers and take out landlord insurance (Id get legal cover too).

Im afraid you need to be a lot more business like about this - he’s your paying customer not someone you are doing a favour for. I say this as someone who has had lodgers for years .

Give yourself a few months to see if it’s working for you - it’s too soon to tell yet. As Pp have said, it’s mostly down to your lack of clear communication with him.
I know it’s hard to adjust your expectations but hopefully it can be sorted out to your mutual benefit.

You might be happier downsizing to a smaller property which you can have to yourself, but if you are going to have a lodger, it is very important to have a written agreement dealing with issues such as guests and what access the lodger gets to which parts of the premises.

If it is only now and then that he brings people home to eat in the kitchen, I wouldn't worry. While he and his friend were enjoying the cooking and eating did they chat to you at all, were they friendly, or did they ignore you? I daresay your lodger thought it was OK as it's not a regular thing. Apart from the kitchen, he can surely have people to visit him in his own quarters, that's normal as long as they don't move in.

Regarding the loud phone calls, just have a word. Nobody wants to hear too much of that. He probably doesn't realise how loud he is.

I wish you good luck. It does take some adjustment.

I think it sounds like he doesn't understand the normal rules for being a lodger, and you've not been clear enough about what the rules for your home are.

It's not typical for lodgers to be welcome to bring other people home, particularly not without asking (but in many cases, not ever, at all!), and the norm is for them to cook with minimal mess/clear up after themselves and eat in their room.

They are renting a room in a house, with access to a kitchen and bathroom, they are not house sharing, so don't usually have equal dibs over eating in the kitchen/dining room/living room or a 'I got here first' set up over that.

But make it clear, put it in writing - 'x guests per month - by prior arrangement. Meals to be eaten in your own room' etc.

There is a lot of duff advice on here from people who have neither had lodgers nor been one (I have done both!) and very much think it is the same as being a tenant or in a house/flat share.

It is his home unless he’s in your house part time and has a home elsewhere. How can you say it’s not? I’ve had lodgers and wouldn’t have dreamt of complaining they’d had friends round. I’ve also been a lodger myself and never had a landlady who would have complained about me inviting friends over for a meal. You’re being very unfair. Having a lodger isn’t just about collecting the rent.

I’ve been a lodger . It’s totally different to a house share.
I had access to a microwave toaster fridge freezer and kettle but not the main kitchen. However this was known and agreed and I liked the privacy . By the way before you gasp in horror , I had lovely outside patio space and the landlady and I would sit together outside to have a drink and chat.

I do not think it’s unreasonable to not allow guests at all , perhaps simpler ,after all they can meet at a cafe or pub. The expectation should be that a lodger should be considerate in relation to noise. ( and vice versa) . You could also stipulate that lodgers can use the kitchen to cook but not use as a leisure area to sit in.

Basically work out what sort of an agreement you will be comfortable , set out those boundaries and find a lodger who will be happy with them. This guy is not the right fit for you and your home.

By your definition OP is your lodger homeless?

Not confused at all he pays good money to stay there this is where he lives this is his home

I’m sure the problem will solve it’s self I can’t see anyone staying long when there treated like a child and have to ask permission to have a friend over during the day

you can’t go lording it over him that it’s your house and he has to ask permission for everything

@rwalker

that’s where the term landlord comes in. The landlord can and should make the rules . It’s not a house share.

Absolutely there’s a need for rules and boundaries but these need to be reasonable

sounds like OP resents having someone in there home

In terms of their legal rights. But it’s still his home.

Call it what you want. It’s still his home.

I don’t think you should ever have a lodger. It’s not something you can handle.

I’ve had lodgers and also had friends who were lodgers. I wouldn’t expect them to occupy the communal space with company. As you’ve said he didn’t even let you know. Obviously that’s going to stop you from making your own dinner etc. I agree with PP’s it’s not the same as a houseshare.

I would expect to be asked or told out of courtesy so I could plan my evening meal around it and I’d do the same.

I had a lodger whose BF regularly stayed and occupied the house all day whilst she was out. Made me v uncomfortable as I’d obviously vetted the lodger but not her BF and I had no idea who he was.

Tbh I don’t really think they should have guests especially not without asking.

🤣

The rent a room scheme allows up to £7,500 per year income tax free, from renting a room in your home. It’s irrelevant for tax purposes whether they have security of tenure or they’re a lodger.

Most mortgage providers stipulate you can’t rent more than 40% of home on any exclusive basis - OP isn’t going to go over this threshold with one room rented. They might have access to the rest of the house but it’s not exclusive possession so, again, not relevant for the lender.

Whether or not cleaning of shared spaces is provided is entirely irrelevant to his security of tenure. People ask re the bedroom as often people reserve the right to clean the lodgers bedroom to prevent the tenant have exclusive possession and thus having security of tenure under the 1954 Act.

Honestly, we live and we learn. I think you're allowing a lodger in but expecting them to do what you would do, however people never will. I think you need a basic contract with expectations just to clarify what you need from them. Maybe even put a table in their room so they can eat etc in their area so you have the run of your property, they cook and eat in their space, leaving you with your space. Id also have rules about not leaving food/crockery in their space too ... some people can be pigs!

On balance, I think it’s him that’s the problem. He clearly doesn’t have an awareness of boundaries as he invaded your space via sound - the phone on speaker and physically - by being in your kitchen and making y9u feel excluded. You need to give him notice to leave.

You clearly can't cope with having a lodger.

I've been a lodger in a very similar set up (had a living room & bedroom but shared the bathroom) I used the kitchen to prepare a meal but generally took it upstairs to my living room to eat. If I had a guest over and my landlady was at home I would nip down make some food and bring it back up (or prepare in advance) Occasionally my landlady would invite me to eat with her or watch a film but it was very much that, an invitation. You haven't mentioned age/s, but thinking there's a misunderstanding on his part of what a lodger arrangement is.

Does his living space have a table to eat at?