Page 20 | issues with lodger

lodger · 2024-10-14T21:32:53+00:00

Hi Hoping for a bit of clarity and in need of a chat about my lodger. He's only been here for a few weeks but ive found it challenging having someone in my home space. Tonight he bought back a friend with no prior warning and occupied the kitchen space and cooked for friend and they both ate at the table, chatting away. I found it quite rude to not give me the heads up that he was bringing a guest back and cooking dinner. I had to make my dinner then leave the kitchen as they were clearly chatting and eating and I felt like a third wheel. He is my lodger and I find this quite rude. Am I being unreasonable in expecting him to tell me that he's bringing a friend home? He also makes very loud phone calls alot of the time and hooks his calls up to an external speaker so that I can hear his conversations very clearly. his room is above mine. Again I find this quite disrespectful. Some viewpoints would be handy. Im not used to having people in my home and I lost my husband last year to cancer so its a big deal to have someone living in my space. Its an adjustment

AngelicKaty · 20/10/2024 00:32

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 00:27

@AngelicKaty she cannot wait a month to get rid of someone who is already displaying concerning behaviour. I very much doubt he would even seek legal advice anyway! He’s sneaky, and he’s a liar. He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

But the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing. He might have form for this sort of behaviour - I find it very weird he should lie about how long he’s been in that town and hasn’t provided any references. Why lie about that unless he has something to hide?

The behaviour may well be "weird" - that doesn't make it an arrestable offence or even something the police would concern themselves with. He's been there just two weeks and OP invited him into her home as her lodger - and now you're suggesting the police would view his behaviour as "cuckooing"? Get a grip.

Abitofalark · 20/10/2024 01:18

AngelicKaty · 19/10/2024 23:58

Did you even read the information at the .gov link? I haven't given incorrect advice - I've precised their advice.

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You are the one who doesn't appear to have read it - and even now, you still don't get it.

Bowies · 20/10/2024 04:11

Sorry for your loss OP.

i wouldn’t like.a lodger as would want my own space. As lodgers go he seems ok. I would just let him know you can hear his calls when he puts them on speaker.

I think your communication lacked clarity, it seemed you were happy for him to entertain occasional guests and you didn’t specify wanting any notice. I think he should be able to do that though and it’s the inconvenience of having a paying lodger.

Bowies · 20/10/2024 04:39

Too add, if you don’t feel safe you should give notice and if possible have someone close to you come and stay with you for support.

I can’t see anything the police would be interested in here, such as putting a key back in the wrong place and eating one of the two items brought to the house.

The family member needs the space is a good one.

AngelicKaty · 20/10/2024 07:21

Abitofalark · 20/10/2024 01:18

You are the one who doesn't appear to have read it - and even now, you still don't get it.

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"Your lodger is an excluded occupier
Your lodger is likely to be an excluded occupier if:

they live in your home
you or a member of your family share a kitchen, bathroom or living room with them

In this case, you only have to give them ‘reasonable notice’ to end the letting - and you will not have to go to court to evict them. Reasonable notice usually means the length of the rental payment period. For example, if rent is paid monthly, you should give one month’s notice."

What's unclear about this?

Rent a room in your home

Renting a room in your home out - Rent a Room Scheme, types of tenancy or licence, rent, bills, tax and ending a letting

https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/ending-a-letting

Waterboatlass · 20/10/2024 07:38

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 00:27

@AngelicKaty she cannot wait a month to get rid of someone who is already displaying concerning behaviour. I very much doubt he would even seek legal advice anyway! He’s sneaky, and he’s a liar. He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

But the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing. He might have form for this sort of behaviour - I find it very weird he should lie about how long he’s been in that town and hasn’t provided any references. Why lie about that unless he has something to hide?

Police will be interested that some woman doesn't like her lodger?

He hasn't lied. He may have been in the town a couple of years, moved away briefly and came back. She was searching him and has made assumptions without asking. Perhaps he may lie if asked but he hasn't thus far.

If she's accepted a lodger without references that's her responsibility, not his

I don't know about the gift.

Key, searching for 2 hours but did she ring or text and ask? Could have been an honest mistake.

She's not happy with her choice so is creating a highly biased picture of him being a bad guy but it really boils down to her lack of communication.

Fine to give notice, but not really fine to paint herself as a victim.

In what universe is there evidence of cuckooing here? She hasn't even asked him to leave.

MoonPieHazySky · 20/10/2024 08:37

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 00:27

@AngelicKaty she cannot wait a month to get rid of someone who is already displaying concerning behaviour. I very much doubt he would even seek legal advice anyway! He’s sneaky, and he’s a liar. He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

But the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing. He might have form for this sort of behaviour - I find it very weird he should lie about how long he’s been in that town and hasn’t provided any references. Why lie about that unless he has something to hide?

He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

What game 😆🤦🏻

I think OP’s lodger would be completely baffled by this thread. He’s been a mildly irritating cohabitee at worst.

he might have form for this sort of behaviour

WHAT sort of behaviour!? Putting a shed key back in the wrong place and eating some chocolate left out in the kitchen? You think he might already be on record with the police for this sort of thing?

the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing

No, they wouldn’t – there is absolutely zero evidence here to suggest anything even remotely similar. Absolute insanity. 🙈

This thread is WILD.

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 08:38

We definitely need OP to come back with an update!

Mrsgreen100 · 20/10/2024 09:00

You mention , he has his own living space ?
is it more than a little bedroom?
if so why isn’t he entertaining in there
thats what lodgers used to do ime

Mrsgreen100 · 20/10/2024 09:10

Omg just read your update
he has his own living room and he is entertaining in your kitchen!!!
that’s a hard no from me
sounds as if he needs putting in line

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 09:13

MoonPieHazySky · 20/10/2024 08:37

He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

What game 😆🤦🏻

I think OP’s lodger would be completely baffled by this thread. He’s been a mildly irritating cohabitee at worst.

he might have form for this sort of behaviour

WHAT sort of behaviour!? Putting a shed key back in the wrong place and eating some chocolate left out in the kitchen? You think he might already be on record with the police for this sort of thing?

the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing

No, they wouldn’t – there is absolutely zero evidence here to suggest anything even remotely similar. Absolute insanity. 🙈

This thread is WILD.

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I’m not talking about form for hiding keys and stealing food! It’s a fairly common confidence scam for someone to regularly move from place to place by securing accommodation with someone who has failed to do any sensible checks/take references (as in this case). They know that LL is bit of a pushover because they failed to do any due diligence. They then pay the first month’s rent and when the next month’s rent is due, they claim to have lost their job or some such and make excuses not to pay up. This might go on for a few weeks. Eventually the LL will lose their patience and take steps to evict but that takes time and effort. By the time they are evicted they may have managed to live rent-free for MONTHS, and then they just leave and move on to the next LL they can hoodwink.

I’ve known of 2 cases, not with lodgers, but with tenants who did exactly this. In the second case, the guy’s behaviour became increasingly alarming during the eviction process and he ended up deliberately flooding the flat by leaving all the taps on whilst clearing his stuff out once he realised the game was up, causing thousands of £ water damage.

In the OP’s case, the lodger is beginning to display low-level behaviours to test her boundaries and resilience. The key and food incidents are provocative. He’s a young male and she’s an older, vulnerable female, so he knows he can intimidate her if he chooses.

Greentreesandbushes · 20/10/2024 09:43

Where did he live before yours?

Waterboatlass · 20/10/2024 10:16

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 09:13

I’m not talking about form for hiding keys and stealing food! It’s a fairly common confidence scam for someone to regularly move from place to place by securing accommodation with someone who has failed to do any sensible checks/take references (as in this case). They know that LL is bit of a pushover because they failed to do any due diligence. They then pay the first month’s rent and when the next month’s rent is due, they claim to have lost their job or some such and make excuses not to pay up. This might go on for a few weeks. Eventually the LL will lose their patience and take steps to evict but that takes time and effort. By the time they are evicted they may have managed to live rent-free for MONTHS, and then they just leave and move on to the next LL they can hoodwink.

I’ve known of 2 cases, not with lodgers, but with tenants who did exactly this. In the second case, the guy’s behaviour became increasingly alarming during the eviction process and he ended up deliberately flooding the flat by leaving all the taps on whilst clearing his stuff out once he realised the game was up, causing thousands of £ water damage.

In the OP’s case, the lodger is beginning to display low-level behaviours to test her boundaries and resilience. The key and food incidents are provocative. He’s a young male and she’s an older, vulnerable female, so he knows he can intimidate her if he chooses.

Show quote history

That's not Cuckooing at all. That's a sloppy or inexperienced landlord not bothering to take appropriate measures. Why allow a non paying lodger to stay for weeks or months? For good or bad, they don't have those rights.

Cuckooing is taking advantage of a vulnerable person and exploiting them/ using their accommodation for criminal activity. For instance taking over the home of a severely disabled person and dealing drugs from the house.

Not misplacing their key or using speaker phone. This is not Cuckooing. The OP doesn't like her lodger.

AngelicKaty · 20/10/2024 10:45

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 09:13

I’m not talking about form for hiding keys and stealing food! It’s a fairly common confidence scam for someone to regularly move from place to place by securing accommodation with someone who has failed to do any sensible checks/take references (as in this case). They know that LL is bit of a pushover because they failed to do any due diligence. They then pay the first month’s rent and when the next month’s rent is due, they claim to have lost their job or some such and make excuses not to pay up. This might go on for a few weeks. Eventually the LL will lose their patience and take steps to evict but that takes time and effort. By the time they are evicted they may have managed to live rent-free for MONTHS, and then they just leave and move on to the next LL they can hoodwink.

I’ve known of 2 cases, not with lodgers, but with tenants who did exactly this. In the second case, the guy’s behaviour became increasingly alarming during the eviction process and he ended up deliberately flooding the flat by leaving all the taps on whilst clearing his stuff out once he realised the game was up, causing thousands of £ water damage.

In the OP’s case, the lodger is beginning to display low-level behaviours to test her boundaries and resilience. The key and food incidents are provocative. He’s a young male and she’s an older, vulnerable female, so he knows he can intimidate her if he chooses.

Show quote history

And NONE of this has anything to do with OP's situation because her lodger is an EXCLUDED OCCUPIER, not a tenant. She just has to give him a month's notice (because he pays his rent monthly) to get him out (the eviction process essential for tenants doesn't apply to excluded occupiers).

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 11:00

Please let’s stop going round in circles on this!

OP will be absolutely within her rights to give this problematic lodger very short notice. There’s no need at all to make it a month (if that’s even the rental period).

He’s only been in the property a fortnight and already there’s been theft and dishonesty.

Telling him to go for 12pm next Saturday is plenty long enough.

Even Shelter state that difficult lodgers can be asked to leave with minimal notice when their behaviour is unreasonable and the landlord feels unsafe:

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/eviction_of_lodgers_and_other_excluded_occupiers

MoonPieHazySky · 20/10/2024 11:00

Fountofwisdom · 20/10/2024 09:13

I’m not talking about form for hiding keys and stealing food! It’s a fairly common confidence scam for someone to regularly move from place to place by securing accommodation with someone who has failed to do any sensible checks/take references (as in this case). They know that LL is bit of a pushover because they failed to do any due diligence. They then pay the first month’s rent and when the next month’s rent is due, they claim to have lost their job or some such and make excuses not to pay up. This might go on for a few weeks. Eventually the LL will lose their patience and take steps to evict but that takes time and effort. By the time they are evicted they may have managed to live rent-free for MONTHS, and then they just leave and move on to the next LL they can hoodwink.

I’ve known of 2 cases, not with lodgers, but with tenants who did exactly this. In the second case, the guy’s behaviour became increasingly alarming during the eviction process and he ended up deliberately flooding the flat by leaving all the taps on whilst clearing his stuff out once he realised the game was up, causing thousands of £ water damage.

In the OP’s case, the lodger is beginning to display low-level behaviours to test her boundaries and resilience. The key and food incidents are provocative. He’s a young male and she’s an older, vulnerable female, so he knows he can intimidate her if he chooses.

Show quote history

None of this stuff has happened, this is all entirely within your mind. It only makes sense to talk about him ‘having form’ for things he’s actually done…?

Also it doesn’t take months to evict a lodger, you only need to give a month’s notice.

And blaming the lodger for the OP not creating a contract is ridiculous. It was her responsibility to do so and it’s him who is now at a disadvantage as a result.

She’s now talking about making him homeless with just a couple of days notice.

If anyone is vulnerable in this situation it’s OP’s lodger.

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 11:09

He’s hardly going to be made homeless. From OP’s posts we know he’s lived in the town for two years - although he lied about that - and his girlfriend lives nearby. Also in general young men are resourceful and have circles of friends they can stay with.

MoonPieHazySky · 20/10/2024 11:15

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 11:00

Please let’s stop going round in circles on this!

OP will be absolutely within her rights to give this problematic lodger very short notice. There’s no need at all to make it a month (if that’s even the rental period).

He’s only been in the property a fortnight and already there’s been theft and dishonesty.

Telling him to go for 12pm next Saturday is plenty long enough.

Even Shelter state that difficult lodgers can be asked to leave with minimal notice when their behaviour is unreasonable and the landlord feels unsafe:

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/eviction_of_lodgers_and_other_excluded_occupiers

This is all such a load of disingenuous crap.

‘Feeling unsafe’ relates to genuinely threatening or intimidating behaviour.

Not putting a shed key back in the wrong place, eating some chocolate from the kitchen and having a friend over for tea. The stuff about ‘dishonesty’ is just conjecture – OP has no idea about his circumstances in any detail because she hasn’t bothered to ask him.

OP has decided she isn’t sure she wants a lodger. You can’t just claim to be a victim as a pretext to be an arse to someone.

OP should not have a lodger as she clearly does not take the responsibility of providing a home to someone seriously. If she doesn’t want him there, she should give him reasonable notice immediately (a month if that’s the rent due period – not a single person in this thread would feel it was reasonable to be given 2 days to vacate their home and find somewhere new to live) and let him know that if he wants to leave sooner she will pro-rata the rent and return anything left over.

CoffeeBeansGalore · 20/10/2024 11:19

@lodger Are you ok? You may not have got the answers you were looking for but just wanted to check.

Waterboatlass · 20/10/2024 11:49

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 11:00

Please let’s stop going round in circles on this!

OP will be absolutely within her rights to give this problematic lodger very short notice. There’s no need at all to make it a month (if that’s even the rental period).

He’s only been in the property a fortnight and already there’s been theft and dishonesty.

Telling him to go for 12pm next Saturday is plenty long enough.

Even Shelter state that difficult lodgers can be asked to leave with minimal notice when their behaviour is unreasonable and the landlord feels unsafe:

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/eviction_of_lodgers_and_other_excluded_occupiers

He has not been dishonest, and theft doesn't mean eating food left once on the side or moving a shed key.

Fine to ask him to leave, but she needs to have the decency and integrity to admit that lodging isn't working out for her at this time. Not to build a spurious case against him.

She's said herself that she's been through a lot and is hyper vigilant. Posters should not be whipping this up. It's not helpful at all.

LochKatrine · 20/10/2024 11:55

Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. This situation is obviously a big adjustment.
However. The lodger is paying rent. They have to live their life, not feel as if they have to hide in their room. It's a horrible way to live, believe me.
It's perfectly ok to have a friend round, cook a meal and chat. If the phone calls are too loud, ask him to turn it down.
He doesn't sound disrespectful.

LochKatrine · 20/10/2024 11:58

lodger · 15/10/2024 10:08

True. I absolutely don't mind him bringing friebds back but the kitchen is the one space I feel most at home in and it's the biggest room in the house so I think it's only fair to get a heads up. I get that he might be worried though.

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I think you're being unreasonable about the kitchen. He needs to cook and eat, too. If it's big, what's the problem with a friend coming round?

Monstermunch10 · 20/10/2024 12:01

You need to give him set times to use the kitchen .
Time it around when you both work and when you prefer the kitchen.
That way ,you both don't get in each others way

AngelicKaty · 20/10/2024 14:28

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 11:00

Please let’s stop going round in circles on this!

OP will be absolutely within her rights to give this problematic lodger very short notice. There’s no need at all to make it a month (if that’s even the rental period).

He’s only been in the property a fortnight and already there’s been theft and dishonesty.

Telling him to go for 12pm next Saturday is plenty long enough.

Even Shelter state that difficult lodgers can be asked to leave with minimal notice when their behaviour is unreasonable and the landlord feels unsafe:

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/eviction_of_lodgers_and_other_excluded_occupiers

I find it incredible that people struggle with reading information and grasping what it clearly says.

OP's 40th post: "I don't work at the moment. I've not set a notice period. Shall I get that in writing to him?"

OP's 42nd post: "I've been pretty naive and didn't want to come across as rule driven. It's backfired and lesson learnt. He pays monthly."

In the absence of a formal notice period, the guidance from reliable sources states clearly that it is reasonable to align a lodger's notice period with the frequency with which they pay rent (in this case, monthly) as the Shelter link you posted says:

"What is reasonable notice?
Reasonable notice must be fair to both you and the landlord.
1 month is reasonable in lots of situations.
Sometimes it could be more. For example, if you have lived there a long time.
But it could be less. For example, if you and the landlord find it hard to live together or you have broken your agreement."

and from the .gov link I posted:
"Reasonable notice usually means the length of the rental payment period. For example, if rent is paid monthly, you should give one month’s notice."

There is nothing in what OP has posted that suggests the reasonable notice period she should give him should be anything other than a month - no longer and no shorter.

NOW you can stop going around in circles!

threeunrelatedwords · 20/10/2024 14:35

AngelicKaty · 20/10/2024 14:28

I find it incredible that people struggle with reading information and grasping what it clearly says.

OP's 40th post: "I don't work at the moment. I've not set a notice period. Shall I get that in writing to him?"

OP's 42nd post: "I've been pretty naive and didn't want to come across as rule driven. It's backfired and lesson learnt. He pays monthly."

In the absence of a formal notice period, the guidance from reliable sources states clearly that it is reasonable to align a lodger's notice period with the frequency with which they pay rent (in this case, monthly) as the Shelter link you posted says:

"What is reasonable notice?
Reasonable notice must be fair to both you and the landlord.
1 month is reasonable in lots of situations.
Sometimes it could be more. For example, if you have lived there a long time.
But it could be less. For example, if you and the landlord find it hard to live together or you have broken your agreement."

and from the .gov link I posted:
"Reasonable notice usually means the length of the rental payment period. For example, if rent is paid monthly, you should give one month’s notice."

There is nothing in what OP has posted that suggests the reasonable notice period she should give him should be anything other than a month - no longer and no shorter.

NOW you can stop going around in circles!

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I’m sorry you care so little about women’s safety :(