issues with lodger

[lodger]

Hi

Hoping for a bit of clarity and in need of a chat about my lodger. He's only been
here for a few weeks but ive found it challenging having someone in my home space. Tonight he bought back a friend with no prior warning and occupied the kitchen space and cooked for friend and they both ate at the table, chatting away. I found it quite rude to not give me the heads up that he was bringing a guest back and cooking dinner. I had to make my dinner then leave the kitchen as they were clearly chatting and eating and I felt like a third wheel. He is my lodger and I find this quite rude. Am I being unreasonable in expecting him to tell me that he's bringing a friend home? He also makes very loud phone calls alot of the time and hooks his calls up to an external speaker so that I can hear his conversations very clearly. his room is above mine. Again I find this quite disrespectful. Some viewpoints would be handy. Im not used to having people in my home and I lost my husband last year to cancer so its a big deal to have someone living in my space. Its an adjustment

I'm really sorry for your loss, do you need a lodger financially or is it more so the house doesn't feel empty? And do you get on with him? I am the same as you and would feel that my space was being taken over, but equally he is paying to be there so there needs to be some give and take here. If you get on well enough it's probably best to sit down and talk about what you both need and establish proper lines rather than just "I don't want people over all the time". It's too vague and could easily be misinterpreted. It would be unreasonable to tell him he isnt aloud anyone over or not to have use of the kitchen, but i dont think you asking that he lets you know someone will be there is unreasonable at all, even if it just means you can get a takeaway or go out for dinner rather than having to tiptoe round them in your own home? How much space does he have to himself? Could you add a kitchenette to make life easier for you both? If you want someone there more for company this doesn't sound like you get along well enough and it's probably not sustainable long term and depending in the legality around it, ask that he moves out and you look for someone more compatible that helps make life a bit easier - but make sure you get a contract that states everything and treat this as a trial run

Definitely wouldn’t consider having one friend over and eating at the kitchen dinner table ‘not behaving himself’ 😂

I never mentioned legally, I said to him, that’s his current home and if he’s paying, he’ll probably assume he can use the ‘communal areas’ as he wants respectfully as there was no written agreement about it. I wouldn’t consider it being unreasonable UNTIL she puts into place a retrospective agreement about giving a heads up about friends, when he goes against that it’s a different story.

A lodger is often free to use kitchen. Bit crap to expect someone to hide in their room.

I agree, but some lodgers interpret ”able to use the kitchen” to “able to invite my crowd of friends round for 6 hours boozing on a week night, during which live-in-landlady/ landlord will feel scared and/or uncomfortable to even dart into the the kitchen themselves”.

What I meant is, it’s not equally shared, like in a house share. You can use communal areas, but your landlord/lady has first dibs on them. You’re also not expected to do any household chores other than clean up after yourself.

When I was a lodger only had the use of my room The bathroom and quick visits to the kitchen, not what I would call cooking. The OPs set up seems particularly generous space wise. There’s a lot of confusion about what exactly exactly lodger is.

As far as I know they weren't tenants, they had no tenancy agreement and DM was able to get rid of them with little notice thankfully. It was all arranged through the council, who put totally inappropriate lodgers with an elderly woman but that's another story!

Edited to add this was a long time ago so I don't know what has changed since then.

Oh I am sure they were told/thought they were lodgers, but they shouldn't have been, had they ever tried to contest it... they should have had a tenancy agreement, could have caused all sorts of problems in staying put and needing a court order and bailiffs to evict!

Does not surprise me one bit it was organised through the council!

Dear OP
I have been concerned from the start about the possibility of a cuckooing situation developing with you.

Your latest posts re him eating your food and worse hiding your key confirms my fears.
You need to get him out ASAP.
Perhaps get a burly man to be around.
Announce he is your brother or nephew and

Is coming to work in the town and needs the room. Now.
Do not appear isolated.
All the best.

Completely agree.

Him hiding your shed key when he knows you use it most days is NOT good!
He could be testing how well defined your ability to push back is.
You are vulnerable, in grief and far from friends, if anyone I lived with hid the shed I'd be giving them a reality check on how acceptable that was quick smart... And that's my own loved ones... Let alone some random guy I've known for five minutes and had lied about his back story.

Get him out. Take time. If you do lodgers again, choose carefully and do it when you're strong. There is no trust or respect here.

I think you said he had a room that he could use for entertaining. Is there room in there to put a table and 2 chairs, where he / they could eat a meal?

You’ve only been in your new home in a completely new location, so you haven’t even settled in yourself yet. You are definitely not ready for a lodger yet, given that you are adjusting to your new circumstances yourself. And I don’t mean this unkindly, but you sound as if you resent him being there at all, which is not really his fault.

I don’t know where you are located but is there a theatre in the town with touring productions? It sounds like you would be much better suited to offering theatre digs rather than having a long-term lodger. Touring productions are generally only in town for a week, and the whole cast and crew need accommodation. They would absolutely love your set-up, with their separate space and bathroom. And what’s more, a microwave, mini fridge, kettle and some crockery in their space would be perfectly accurate. They will be out every evening, come home exhausted and just want to make a quick snack or hot drink and go to bed. They are generally well behaved and you would meet some very interesting people. And the best bit is - if you don’t like them, they will be gone within the week.

There’s a dedicated website where hosts can register for this and theatres also keep their own digs list of local accommodation, (they would want to inspect it first obviously.)

But for now you can either persevere with your current lodger or just give him notice. And then give yourself some time to adjust to your own massive upheaval before just jumping straight into doing theatre digs. If you’re not desperate for the money, what’s the rush?

I hadn’t read the full thread of updates before my previous reply but now I’ve read the stuff about the food, the key, the girlfriend, the lies, the fact you don’t even know if/where he works, and the fact you don’t feel safe, this man needs to go and he needs to go straight away.

You are a vulnerable woman so you need some support. Please report to the police asap that you’re feeling unsafe and worried about a potential cuckooing situation, and explain the things he’s done, (not the minor one about using the kitchen), but definitely the hiding the key which is very dodgy behaviour. If you’re worried about him overhearing your conversation with them, you can go to your local police station tomorrow and report this. He might even be on their radar already for all you know. At the least, the police can give you some advice.

Alongside this, I think you may need to invent a friend’s son from up north who is coming to your town to work and needs the accommodation, so regrettably you need to give him immediate notice and will obviously refund his deposit as soon as he vacates.

Alternatively, do you have any male friends or family who could come round while you ask him to leave? I know you said most of your circle is up north, but is there anyone you trust who could come and help you do that?

Once he is out, you MUST get all
the locks changed, which is actually something everyone should do when they buy a new home - you never have any idea of who has retained keys to your new property over the years.

Do let us know what is happening, as I’m sure a lot of us here are feeling quite concerned at the situation. Best of luck, and please take steps to resolve this straight away by getting support and advice from the police or a trusted friend/family member.

Absolutely. Under Housing law he has the status of an "Excluded Occupier", so she only has to give him "reasonable" notice. This is usually one week, unless he's paying his rent over a longer period (which he is i.e. monthly) so OP has to give him one month's notice. https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/your-lodgers-tenancy-type#:~:text=Your%20lodger%20is%20an%20excluded,or%20living%20room%20with%20them

“However, for more serious problems such as aggressive or violent behaviour, stealing, or if you find your lodger has been using your property for criminal activities such as using or dealing in prohibited drugs (which will put him in breach of his lodger agreement), a shorter notice period may be appropriate.

Note – For very serious incidents, it may also be a good idea to tell the police when incidents occur. This will be helpful if you then need their help later if you have to evict your lodger as there will then be a documented history of (for example) violence, and they will be more likely to co-operate with you.”

https://www.lodgerlandlord.co.uk/giving-your-lodger-formal-notice-to-leave/

(That site is really informative in general, by the way.)

You've quoted incorrect advice, agreeing with it and then added your own incorrect advice:"...OP has to give him one month's notice." The requirement is 'reasonable notice'; what is reasonable will vary according to particular circumstances. That's why it is worded in that broad term. There is no absolute and you cannot dictate an absolute 'has to' specifying a particular period of notice.

"However, for more serious problems such as aggressive or violent behaviour, stealing, or if you find your lodger has been using your property for criminal activities such as using or dealing in prohibited drugs ....." But he hasn't done any of these things.

Did you even read the information at the .gov link? I haven't given incorrect advice - I've precised their advice.

Have you not read the later updates? At the very least, he has stolen and concealed her key and he has stolen her food. These are not normal behaviours and we know that he has lied to her about his back story. She is a vulnerable woman feeling unsafe in her home. He may or may not be involved in criminality, he certainly isn’t trustworthy. She needs urgent support from the police and/or a family member to get him out ASAP.

You've kind of implied you gave permission. You need rule like check in advance or twice a month max

Sorry about your husband xx

My old lodger used to bring back colleagues for loud 2-4am sex on work nights I eventually asked her to leave after 6-12 months of being passive aggressive to her about it

The problem now is that the thread is extremely long so people aren’t reading the more worrying updates and STILL responding to the initial minor issues…🤦🏻‍♀️

I always read ALL of an OP's post before commenting (it hacks me off when people don't).
He didn't steal her key (stealing would have been permanently depriving her of it). I also think his behaviour is "off", but he could easily explain away the key by saying he made a mistake about where he returned it to, and eating something of hers is bang out of order (and IMO is some kind of test to irritate OP) but do you really think the police would see that as aggressive or threatening?
I absolutely agree OP needs to get rid of him, but she just needs to give him a month's notice and say it's not working (if she wants to soften the blow and make their last month living together as tolerable as possible she could just say she's never had a lodger before and now realises she's not ready to have one).

The Op hasn't been back for 2.5 days, since she said she had been looking at his Facebook.

Hopefully she gave him the required one month's notice that day...

@AngelicKaty she cannot wait a month to get rid of someone who is already displaying concerning behaviour. I very much doubt he would even seek legal advice anyway! He’s sneaky, and he’s a liar. He’ll hopefully do a flit once he realises the game is up.

But the police WOULD be interested if it was reported as potential cuckooing. He might have form for this sort of behaviour - I find it very weird he should lie about how long he’s been in that town and hasn’t provided any references. Why lie about that unless he has something to hide?