To think most men are selfish?

[henrts]

Even when they think they’re not, they are still massively selfish compared with a woman. Not all men, obviously, but I think it’s true of most. I also think it shows mostly when they have kids… somehow they still manage to put themselves first.

Again, that’s a choice. Don’t marry someone who weaponises incompetence, or don’t pander to them if you did. Anyone who can read can cook, and there’s nothing like hungry children going apeshit to concentrate the mind.

For many society and upbringing make them like this.

I don't disagree with you rarebitten, just wouldn't have expected every last woman in the group being in the same boat that night.

Well, all I have to say, I'm very happy and fortunate to never have anything to do with any of them anymore, if I don't want to.

I do find when I hear about most heterosexual relationships I am baffled as to what women find appealing about their male partners.

I think there are men who want wives and children and men who want to be husbands and fathers.

The former are the ones who tend to be selfish.

I am always constantly amazed at just how much so many men’s entire lives seem to revolve around getting access to sex!

Blows my mind!

I agree it’s weird and depressing. I don’t know anyone who would have done that. My only female friend who literally always does the cooking is quite upfront that it’s because of her own disordered eating (for which she’s in specialist therapy) — it feels more manageable for her to know exactly what’s in the food and how it’s cooked. But her DH and two teenage sons are perfectly competent cooks. DH does all the cooking here.

Welp!

There we have it. The data shows that they ARE more selfish!

What percentage of men join the armed forces and of those way percentage do so for selfless reasons (rather than it was a job and something that interested them?)

@strivingtosucceed

Men can be very selfish in other ways too though, the sheer amount of single mothers who haven't seen their counterpart in months or years speaks to that. They simply dont' become shamed enough for it.

Excellent point. The sheer imbalance in the numbers of single mothers vs. single fathers does demonstrate a degree of selfishness on the part of the men involved.

Not sure about this.

However, if we're making this discussion gendered, maybe quite a significant proportion of women could be seen as over-selfless, hyper-selfless.

Self-indulgently so, in many cases that I've observed.

Reasons behind that, ofc - maybe lacking in confidence to do/act/be who/what they really want to, maybe?

Fellas tend to just operate in a different realm where they're kinder to themselves, put less pressure on themselves, perhaps.

More mellow - but aware in most cases, I'd hazard.

No, I find most men go be accommodating and willing to give up their time etc whereas I see a lot of women who put themselves first and are incredibly selfish.

Not in my family or friendships. Our (grown up) sons are not selfish at, my DH is not either. I think the family you get or the company you keep, determines that.

Don't totally agree with all of this, but wanted to acknowledge an intelligent, sensible, nuanced contribution.

I had a pop at someone the other day on here for making garbage comments; I'm older now, but this posts reminds me of the level of debate and discussion that Mumsnet used to provide.

Or it may be due to societal expectations and differing pressures for both genders?

Women are taught from early on that they have to be in lamest terms obedient, always giving and forgiving, selfless, and a bunch of attributes that are not placed on men.

Motherhood only adds to it and the inequalities in expectations of mothers compared to fathers is pushing more women to forego motherhood all together so they can prioritise themselves the same ways that men do and not go through what they notice too many mothers do.

Saying that though there are more men from what I’ve seen (at least on SM) pushing back against men being “babysitters” to their children and trying to teach other males to be more considerate and take a more equal part in parenthood.

Well it seems like my entire friendship group are very lucky too! Maybe there is something in the water around here!

@henrts I would say they are often inconsiderate rather than selfish....... they just don't "get" the need to consider the implications of their actions on those around them.

On the whole I think that most people are inherently selfish when it comes to looking after their own interests.

Perhaps there is a difference though, as many women will look on their children, elderly relatives, and keeping house & home together as their interests, and many men don't appear to even have those things on their radar. They think it all gets done by the housework fairy.

That's a fair enough response, ofc - and perhaps I should have stressed a nature/nurture/society expectations slant to my thoughts and observations, but I can't agree to some things here.

"Women are taught from early on that they have to be in lamest terms obedient, always giving and forgiving, selfless, and a bunch of attributes that are not placed on men."

Taught? Who by? When? Where? Imho, we haven't lived in the 50s for decades and decades...

"the inequalities in expectations of mothers compared to fathers." Again, I find that a rather tired and cliched assertion, if I'm honest.

"men being “babysitters” to their children "...an exclusive to Mumsnet view in my experience.

Perhaps there are plenty of rubbish fellas like that but one would expect the women who are with them to be equally as rubbish

Dunno...there was a woman who's child had died in very sad circumstances recently who said that sadly, mental health wasn't talked about enough. We talk about absolutely nothing else!

I'm a woman and I'm really genuinely selfish and self centred. I don't care either.

It is not a uniquely male trait.

Not in my circle either. The reality is bad press makes good news. Lots of women in great relationships are rarely going to write about it because they don’t need to have a moan or ask for help on trying to sort a problem that they don’t have. But get a no hoper post and it attracts stories of uselessness and selfishness.

Wrong thread, sorry!

My dh is wonderful in many ways but he was ultimately taught to put his needs above others and this is his default. Whereas I growing up in an abusive home was taught to never consider my needs but keep everyone's else's needs met.
He will consciously do stuff for other/sacrifice but this also leads to him thinking he's amazing for doing so.

I think it's largely due to the stark difference in how men and women are raised.

OP in general I agree.