To think most men are selfish?

[henrts]

Even when they think they’re not, they are still massively selfish compared with a woman. Not all men, obviously, but I think it’s true of most. I also think it shows mostly when they have kids… somehow they still manage to put themselves first.

I think most men are selfish. About 50% of women, but not all, are selfless.

However, all lobsters are shellfish.

I think male selflessness can look different. It's having the ego to step forward into uncertainty or danger. Taming that ego for the collective good. It's being willing to go away to find work, or work long hours in shit jobs if that is needed. It's single minded, self sacrificing in a different way, quiet endurance, loyalty. We're all human and flawed in a world of suffering. Both sexes have biological realities and have inherited cultural expectations, and the value of different behaviours waxes and wanes with history. We all have worth.

Not met all men.
Not met all women.

agree with this. My partner got in a massive strop with me the other night as my daughter (6) said she felt sick so I said she could sleep on a mattress in our room. Partner wanted to have sex so didn’t want her there and said she was faking it. She then projectiled all over the hallway and I left him to clean it up ha ha. He always thinks the kids are faking it when they say they are ill as invariably having them off school / needing extra support and care is inconvenient for him. It’s one of the things I hate most about his parenting

But why don't they see the logic or have the innate urging to put their children first though? You'd die for your country but not willing to sacrifice anything for your child 🤷‍♀️ before anyone tells me off, I know there are great men out there but in general they are more selfish than women as pp demonstrated by studies that have been made on the subject.

You’re the one saying all men.

My DH is, but he would say he isn’t.
I still remember, when I was going back to work after having the kids, that he said if the kids were off school ill he wouldn’t be taking time off work for them. My job meant so little to him, he would have preferred me to stay at home and make his life easier.

Don't see it myself. 🤷

I broadly agree and I think more men are selfish than women but plenty of people of both sexes are selfish and women are more socially conditioned to disguise it. However of the selfish men, many are utterly unaware that they are selfish as they are culturally conditioned to assume they and their work take priority. Most wouldn’t verbalise it as baldly as that, instead they “need more sleep” than their spouses”; it doesn’t occur to them to check if they can go to the gym on Thursday night after work as Rach will be there anyway with the kids; they aren’t as fussy about the house/ UPFs/ the grass as Rach, I doesn’t bother them… etc.

In general yes. It's mainly men who have hobbies that take up lots of time and money, while the women in their lives facilitate this. And the men think this is perfectly ok.

You are simply lucky. Many women marry men EXACTLY like your husband, but when the babies arrive suddenly the man turns into someone else. They all look walk and talk the same. There's no sign that says I'll turn into a selfish man one day in their heads.

From Ricky Gervais’ Humanity

‘Women are constantly trying to drag men up to their level, mentally and emotionally. But we won’t go. We like it down here, with our football and our knuckle-dragging. It’s brilliant.’

Not sure if you are referring to my post?

If so can you please highlight the part where I claim soldiers are all bullies and rapists? I was reporting on a statistic about the lived experiences of British servicewomen.

I’m struggling to understand your train of thought. You seem to believe that the fact a small percentage of men in this country join the armed forces is somehow a reflection on all men and particularly men who join up. Men as an entire class of people are noble and unselfish because some fight wars? Being a soldier confers wonderful personality traits on an individual?

Men in the armed forces are human beings with all the flaws that entails. Some are nice, respectful individuals and others are not. I’m not sure why you think we have to automatically assume they are all selfless heroes. They join for many, varied reasons. I’ve worked with the MOD’s recruitment team and they target poor areas of the country as many young men there have few career options and see the army or navy as an opportunity to earn money and see the world. They are not all chomping at the bit to die for their country and protect us little wimmin.

But why don't they see the logic or have the innate urging to put their children first though? You'd die for your country but not willing to sacrifice anything for your child

I think it’s because there is not as much/enough praise and obvious accolades in being a good father and a good amount would rather look the part than actually do it.

Men have been conditioned mainly by other men that to receive legitimate praise and uplift in society they have to be the best at “masculine” things. Praise is a great motivator and who is giving the praise matters. Many men care more about praise from other men and value it more than that of women’s unless it is pertaining to more “feminine” things.

Many men (not all obviously) can recite sports stats, do great at their jobs, yet can’t remember their children’s birthdays or
even their wives, can’t seem to remember to do simple chores even those for themselves or consider their wives and children outside of providing/money even when their wives work too.

Do I think it is out of pure selfishness for most, no, more not taught to consider others, especially women.

Gendered social conditioning.

I have no issue with centring myself. When DH and I were contemplating having a child, I said I wouldn’t be the one compromising my career, so he needed to take that into account — did he want a child enough to work around mine in terms of childcare, childminder pick-ups etc.

I didn’t say it yet you keep posting back as if I and other posters said that.

You also choose to ignore that women contributed in battles and wars, fought (before they weren’t permitted to by men). Some went against those rules to fight anyway disguised as men. Women still join today despite the risks to them before they even get on the battlefield.

I think men are far more likely to consistently prioritise themselves and put their own needs first.
Sometimes they may not not even realise they are doing it.
ie just assume you will do childcare whilst they do a hobby /disappear for a few hours or not notice regular household things that need doing or just reorder/buy something when it gets low or has run out.
But for me the litmus test was when DD was seriously ill with Anorexia. It took hours to feed her, I had to stop work to care for her at home, I put my needs entirely on hold to nurse her.
It took DH a long time to accept she was so ill.
Go to an eating disorder clinic/ group family therapy and look for the dad's, they are rarer than hens teeth.
It's the mums on their knees trying to support their seriously ill child when it has to be done consistently over a long period of time. The dad's were rarely emotionally or physically available for any length of time as they could not seem to cope or were unwilling to provide an intense level of care over a long period of time .
IME Mums put their kids needs first in a way dad's just don't.

I think there's a difference between thoughtless selfishness and full blown narcissistic selfishness. I would still say men are more selfish on both counts but i'd guess it's more even when it comes to being an all round selfish person.

Something I see that comes up very often is food. I can't even count the number of times men in my family or around me have approached food with no thought for anyone else. Eg at work, they'd take HUGE slices of birthday cake, not minding if it would go around. Or male family members staying with me would take overly large portions of food, which were supposed to be leftovers for the next day, and in some cases wouldn't even be able to finish it. Or in group settings where we'd order tapas style or shared meals, they'd go for seconds or thirds before some people even got their first. In these cases, i'm not 100% sure they mean to do it, rather that they don't feel the need to think of anyone else's feelings.

Men can be very selfish in other ways too though, the sheer amount of single mothers who haven't seen their counterpart in months or years speaks to that. They simply dont' become shamed enough for it.

However of the selfish men, many are utterly unaware that they are selfish as they are culturally conditioned to assume they and their work take priority.

I was trying to formulate a response but this post absolutely nails it. There are truly, openly selfish men but many more "good guys" who are selfish in a subconscious way because of an innate feeling of entitlement. That may be biological, or societal, or both. I would put my husband in this category. He does his share (we both work FT) but somehow gives the impression that he thinks he's doing me a favour rather than simply doing his share iyswim. Whereas my contributions are just accepted as what I ought to be doing and are not favours or anything special.

When I was young my dad referred to himself as head of the household and said it was perfectly reasonable for my mum to serve him in all ways domestically as he brought in more money. In our house we both work FT and I earn nearly twice as much as H. Whilst he does do an even split of domestic stuff, it would never occur to him to do any more than his alloted share to further facilitate my career even though it's the critical one for our family.

Plus I have almost all the mental load for child related stuff. When I raise that he says "oh just ask me if you need me to do anything" but the point is no one asks ME - I have to plan it and make it happen. It's as if they came out of my body so they are my responsibility first and foremost. And whilst I've dropped the rope on other stuff I won't let the children go without school dinners/ dental check ups etc to make a point ... and so it continues, a self perpetuating cycle.

Unfortunately I am of this mindset too and I have experienced endless selfish men from my family, in-laws and the workplace. I feel that DH is considerate and not like the other men I’ve encountered. Otherwise I wouldn’t stay married to him.

I might start a thread asking are most women judgemental and shallow, just to even the scales up a bit

I think every individual is shaped by their upbringing. So sadly some people’s instincts are flawed, questionable from an early age, even more so if they make a bad life choice partner later on.

I don’t think all men are selfish, I don’t think all women are judgemental and shallow. Some are, some aren’t. All depends on the influences they experience through life.

Yes, this has been my experience.

Was at an after-school party last week and was really surprised that every last mum there said they'd had to leave something out at home for the husband to feed the other kids tea, or arrange to come back with take out, etc. All said the men couldn't or wouldn't cook.

I include myself in that but just thought I was an idiot and no-one else would be standing for it. Meal planning when we're not even there (and making sure it's something the men can handle getting on a plate without incident) is just an extra chore for women and clearly something plenty of men couldn't be bothered with.

There's a singer on Instagram (Faridah I think) who does a great song about making a list for hapless men ("how was he supposed to know the kids eat every night").

Yep! You’ve made a point (a lot more eloquently) that I was trying to in a post yesterday

I’ve noticed that even the ‘good’ guys I know view their work around the house and with their children as providing generous assistance for their wives/partners, not just doing what they should be doing.

It creeps up in their language “I helped my wife and looked after the kids..” “I help out around the house…”

I see male colleagues on social media (unfortunately I have to use LinkedIn for work) boasting about the fact they left work early one day to look after their child. One wrote a long post about having to look after his 2 year old on his own while his wife travelled abroad. Apparently it was the hardest 48 hours of his life. And of course there was the patronising follow up guff at the end “To all the mums out there, you do such a great job..” But luckily for you Dave it’s just a temporary job for 2 days eh?

How many women describe looking after their own children as helping their husband? Or write self congratulatory posts explaining that they left the office early to tend to a sick child? None because this the default expectation for women. A man doing the same is lauded because he is giving up his precious time to help us.