Page 15 | To expect men to bring condoms

independentfriend · 13/10/2024 18:24

I'd be surprised because I'd expected penis equipped people to have a preference for brand / material of condom + lube.

Laura95167 · 13/10/2024 19:06

Dockofthebaobun · 12/10/2024 11:50

Since my divorce I’ve occasionally had hook-ups with men I’ve got chatting to online. The first time, the guy didn’t have condoms on him so we used mine. I thought it was odd for someone to meet for a shag and not bring condoms, and I wondered if he had genuinely forgotten or was just trying to chance it and see if I would without (er, not on your life mate, sorry).
Since then I have had three more hookups, the latest being last night. And now three out of four have ‘forgotten’ condoms.

What is it with these guys? They are all in their late 30s / 40s, all professional well-spoken men, with jobs and responsibilities and things. Why would they be so thoughtless and/or reckless with their sexual health?

Incidentally the best date by far was the one guy who did bring his own. I don’t think that’s necessarily a coincidence!

AIBU to expect them to bring their own? I always bring some, but God why should it be my responsibility?

It's hard to answer if you're just meeting them for sex one time. I think everyone should carry condoms if they're hoping for sex, not all women take hormonal birth control and that doesn't protect from STDs.

I do think as a one off maybe they genuinely ran out or forgot but sounds like it more like they're being lazy. I'd be tempted to refuse completely or send them to the shop for their own

Jack80 · 13/10/2024 19:20

I would have some in anyway like you said.

Deeperthantheocean · 13/10/2024 19:36

Before DH I always used condoms but was surprised at so many friends who never have and continue not to. On the pill, didn't and don't care still, get an UTI or STI, get treated for it. Most men prefer sex naturally but yes should take condoms if they know they could have sex. Ultimately it's up to as women to insist and provide sadly.

IcyLilacZebra · 13/10/2024 19:55

I think both people should have responsibility for it because your just hooking up for casual sex shouldn't just be down to the man condoms or not I think regular sexual health checks are in order if you sleeping with that many men

vivainsomnia · 13/10/2024 19:59

They run out of money, depending on how often they meet women for sex.

Or they are scared their wives will find them and ask some questions?

sunshinemode · 13/10/2024 20:00

WT actual F
I cannot believe that there are people in 2024 saying that if OP was attacked she would be to blame. NO she would not. The only person who is to blame for rape is the rapist. Not the short skirt, not getting drunk , not being a woman who enjoys see and has agreed to meet for sex.
Is it any wonder the reporting of rapes is so low.

PooNaNa · 13/10/2024 20:00

Men are too selfish and unreliable - make sure you have the condoms to avoid putting up with their disappointing nonsense.

VWAirbag · 13/10/2024 20:02

OP, my advice would be to insist on using your own to avoid a situation where the bloke brings a 10yo perished condom that breaks/sabotages the condom with a pin/otherwise dicks about. Stranger things have happened and you don’t know these guys.

VWAirbag · 13/10/2024 20:07

(I also suspect they might have mis-assessed OP and the situation and be expecting to get away without using one.)

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:07

MrsLBrown · 13/10/2024 08:43

In terms of safety, I don't think this is especially risky. Women are more likely to be assaulted or killed by a man they already know who's angry/ jealous/ controlling. Going on a handful of dates before having sex doesn't really give you any more insight into a person's character than a brief chat and you could argue that a 'date' is more likely to present a false impression of themselves (to try and get sex) than a man who already knows sex is on the cards.

There is a massive difference between going on a few dates and then having sex, or having sex as a transactional event in a hotel with a stranger.

A date isn't more likely to give a false impression to get sex as there are plenty of women like @Dockofthebaobun who are happy just to have sex! They don't need bother to 'pretend' to want more.

The former is that when you date you have some expectation of it developing into a relationship or even FWB, rather than a ONS. And you could have met the person's friends, colleagues, family etc. I'm not saying this is always the case, or the man isn't a nutter, but the odds of coming to harm are less.

And- being frank- the men OP has met so far don't care about her or want a relationship. They are getting sex, with no strings, they aren't paying for it, so from their point of view- why not go for it?

And the old chestnut that keeps cropping up about women being killed by men they know- yes, that's true. But this isn't just about murder or serious assault. They are unlikely. More being asked to do sexual things you don't want to do, so they become nasty but not so violent that there is evidence.

The fact is that OP has only had 4 encounters. The odds of anything nasty happening are low. But it's always a risk and the more she does it, the higher the risk. She's already found out the men don't care about her because of the no-condoms. For them it's probably no different to using a prostitute but without paying, or the stigma, (and the hope they can go condom-free.)

And before anyone wades in, I'm not saying the OP is 'like a prostitute'. Women are entitled to have sex with no strings as much as they want to. But some men have different views.

Edited

More being asked to do sexual things you don't want to do, so they become nasty but not so violent that there is evidence.

Again, that would be how my ex-partners behaved after getting me emotionally invested enough not to want to rock the boat, not my ONSes.

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:13

MrsLBrown · 13/10/2024 11:57

No one is being a misogynist by suggesting women think carefully about the risks they take. Women have more to lose by men in these casual hook ups. Not one poster has said women shouldn't have sex when they like or ONS. But it's simply unrealistic not to acknowledge that men don't pose a risk and turning this into a 'blame culture' is not what posters have done. OP can put herself out there and take the risk - she's accepted that. My point all along has been that she may be minimising the risk as it's only based on 4 men. And as 3 of them haven't even bothered to bring a condom, that says something about them - doesn't it? It doesn't mean they are murderers but it does show how little regard they have for her, as an object to fulfil their needs. So the misogyny is all theirs.

Women have more to lose than men by co-habiting. Our lives are shortened if we get married, whilst men's are lengthened. We have more to lose by having kids. Yet no one outside of FWR ever suggests that women stay single for life for our own safety.

ONSes are probably safer than getting married because you aren't legally tied to the bastard nor living in the same dwelling as him if he decides to use you as a punchbag. And you aren't emotionally invested so you are much more willing to walk away.

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:18

Autumnights · 13/10/2024 13:48

@SouthLondonMum22

I think it's because a lot of women ( not all ) can't separate the emotions where sex is concerned. I've heard men talking where they have said they just want to fuck and go .

They don't want to go on a date , pay for things and talk , and spend time cuddling after sex . they just want to fuck and go. Maybe that's why they use prostitutes .Ive heard men say that they are paying for sex anyway by bringing a wage packet into the home . Yes really! .

Ive heard men say that they are paying for sex anyway by bringing a wage packet into the home . Yes really!

Remind me again how getting married is meant to be safer than a ONS again? At least the ONS can't use "paying for it" argument as an excuse to rape.

VWAirbag · 13/10/2024 20:19

Some posts on this thread remind me of that stupid man v bear thing. Yes, many more women are murdered by their partner than by a stranger but that’s because many more women have partners than random hook ups. You can’t leap from there to saying that you’re safer in a room with a stranger than a partner.

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:22

SpidersAreShitheads · 13/10/2024 14:57

I agree with you that the risk is small, definitely. But by small I mean in terms of numbers. I think most men are very happy to meet up and have sex. Only a minority want the extra kicks of violence/rape. But there are other ways of quantifying risk.

I think that it’s very unlikely that the stranger would show his true colours before the woman is in a vulnerable position. So I think although in theory, she could just walk away if she felt threatened/in danger, the reality is that by that point she could only walk away if he was willing to let her….

So I think that if it did go wrong during a hookup and the man turned out to be violent, I don’t think it would be a slow escalation. It would literally be 0-100 right away so there’s the chance of really awful harm.

With a ONS there is a risk that you’re going to meet a man who always intends to hurt you. He will wait until the door is locked and you’re in a vulnerable position - and you’ve got no chance.

That’s the risk. And that’s why we always say to each other when going on dates “stay in public, don’t go back to his house, make sure someone knows where you are etc” - it’s to minimise the risk of being ambushed. With a ONS you’re effectively throwing every safeguard out of the window.

The chance of meeting that kind of man on an arranged ONS is low. But the same goes for dating - it’s unlikely that you’d be in danger. But we generally all agree it’s better not to risk it - because if you’re unlucky and you DO meet a bad one, you might not live to tell the tale.

So yes, in terms of risk the numbers of men who intend to hurt the woman are low, but if you do meet one, the risk of getting badly hurt is very very high.

As I said, we all determine our own acceptable risk level.

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He can ambush you and go from 0-100 on the fourth date or whenever it is that we are "allowed" to have sex for the first time. It's not hard for a man to pretend to be decent for four dates.

ISeriouslyDoubtIt · 13/10/2024 20:28

Elle2018 · 13/10/2024 17:47

YABU to think that men give two hoots about condoms and safe sex. Any man who will happily go to a hook up doesn’t care.

Exactly. And they'll view the OP the same way they'd view a prostitute, (except she's free) ie with no care for her whatsoever.
I'm really surprised the OP is shocked they didn't bring any condoms, of course they didn't, they are there for transactional sex with a stranger, they will presumably expect her to take care of her own contraception and protection so why bother to spend money on them.
I would have thought the OP would prefer to use her own as she would know how old they were etc.

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:30

VWAirbag · 13/10/2024 20:19

Some posts on this thread remind me of that stupid man v bear thing. Yes, many more women are murdered by their partner than by a stranger but that’s because many more women have partners than random hook ups. You can’t leap from there to saying that you’re safer in a room with a stranger than a partner.

80% of rapes are perpetrated by someone already known to the victim. 50% by a current or former romantic partner. Of the 20% of stranger rapes, over half (11% of all rapes) are perpetrated by taxi drivers.

Only 9% are perpetrated by strangers, with ONSes in that category. I'm pretty sure that more than 9% of women have had ONSes.

MaidOfAle · 13/10/2024 20:35

ISeriouslyDoubtIt · 13/10/2024 20:28

Exactly. And they'll view the OP the same way they'd view a prostitute, (except she's free) ie with no care for her whatsoever.
I'm really surprised the OP is shocked they didn't bring any condoms, of course they didn't, they are there for transactional sex with a stranger, they will presumably expect her to take care of her own contraception and protection so why bother to spend money on them.
I would have thought the OP would prefer to use her own as she would know how old they were etc.

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And they'll view the OP the same way they'd view a prostitute, (except she's free) ie with no care for her whatsoever.

Half an hour on the Relationships board will tell you that an awful lot of husbands treat their wives like that.

Yet no one outside of FWR suggests spinsterhood as an empowering alternative to marriage.

It's almost as if the concern isn't for women's safety but is instead a concern that some women are daring to have sex without charging men the cost of marriage for it.

EBearhug · 13/10/2024 20:46

I think if the stats were done on women who put themselves in risky situations like this then the prevalence of assault or abuse wpuld be very high indeed.

I don't. I've had quite a few ONSs, more than the OP, and the men have generally been nice and polite. No bad breath (fortunately,) and glad to be there. There have been some where I declined taking it past the first meet in a bar. There have been a couple who ghosted me after. But most stay in touch long enough to say thank you afterwards, a couple turned into FWBs rather than just a ONS. (One turned into one of the most important relationships I've had.) If they're not interested, they just leave and ghost. If they want a fight, they're probably going to go to a bar and find blokes to size up.

There's been enough discussion before meeting to have declined the ones who are into things I'm not. There have been a couple I cancelled the date before it happened because I wasn't getting the right vibes. None of this means that the next one won't have lied about what he's into, or that he wouldn't force it if I decline analysing or a bj, but so far, they seem to have been glad to be there and to have uncomplicated sex. So if I'm in the mood for it again, I probably will do it again, because like the OP, I accept the risks there are.

Soberinthecity · 13/10/2024 20:50

My friend meets men online for sex. They always prove they’re STI clear first - It's just a rule. Safety comes first or no sex, simple.

EBearhug · 13/10/2024 20:52

VWAirbag · 13/10/2024 20:02

OP, my advice would be to insist on using your own to avoid a situation where the bloke brings a 10yo perished condom that breaks/sabotages the condom with a pin/otherwise dicks about. Stranger things have happened and you don’t know these guys.

She does. But if the men cared about STI risks or ending up as a father, they would bring their own condoms anyway. But they don't.

sammylady37 · 13/10/2024 20:52

EBearhug · 13/10/2024 20:46

I think if the stats were done on women who put themselves in risky situations like this then the prevalence of assault or abuse wpuld be very high indeed.

I don't. I've had quite a few ONSs, more than the OP, and the men have generally been nice and polite. No bad breath (fortunately,) and glad to be there. There have been some where I declined taking it past the first meet in a bar. There have been a couple who ghosted me after. But most stay in touch long enough to say thank you afterwards, a couple turned into FWBs rather than just a ONS. (One turned into one of the most important relationships I've had.) If they're not interested, they just leave and ghost. If they want a fight, they're probably going to go to a bar and find blokes to size up.

There's been enough discussion before meeting to have declined the ones who are into things I'm not. There have been a couple I cancelled the date before it happened because I wasn't getting the right vibes. None of this means that the next one won't have lied about what he's into, or that he wouldn't force it if I decline analysing or a bj, but so far, they seem to have been glad to be there and to have uncomplicated sex. So if I'm in the mood for it again, I probably will do it again, because like the OP, I accept the risks there are.

That’s very similar to the experiences I’ve had. Generally respectful, polite and most have gone on to be regular casual encounters rather than ONSs.

sammylady37 · 13/10/2024 20:56

It's almost as if the concern isn't for women's safety but is instead a concern that some women are daring to have sex without charging men the cost of marriage for it

I think this hits the nail on the head, tbh, despite all the protestations of concern for her safety. I referenced a thread earlier in which I’d been called ‘looser than a broken hair tie’ for daring to have casual sex, and the whole premise of that thread was how men don’t need to ‘offer’ relationships and marriage now as women engage in casual sex, meaning men have no incentive to enter relationships, and how awful and anti-sisterhood such women were.

MarvellousMonsters · 13/10/2024 21:09

Dockofthebaobun · 12/10/2024 11:50

Since my divorce I’ve occasionally had hook-ups with men I’ve got chatting to online. The first time, the guy didn’t have condoms on him so we used mine. I thought it was odd for someone to meet for a shag and not bring condoms, and I wondered if he had genuinely forgotten or was just trying to chance it and see if I would without (er, not on your life mate, sorry).
Since then I have had three more hookups, the latest being last night. And now three out of four have ‘forgotten’ condoms.

What is it with these guys? They are all in their late 30s / 40s, all professional well-spoken men, with jobs and responsibilities and things. Why would they be so thoughtless and/or reckless with their sexual health?

Incidentally the best date by far was the one guy who did bring his own. I don’t think that’s necessarily a coincidence!

AIBU to expect them to bring their own? I always bring some, but God why should it be my responsibility?

You know women can buy condoms too. Get over yourself and buy them to take with you yourself.

EBearhug · 13/10/2024 21:14

MarvellousMonsters · 13/10/2024 21:09

You know women can buy condoms too. Get over yourself and buy them to take with you yourself.

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SHE DOES.

The point is why don't men care about protecting themselves from unwanted STIs or fatherhood?