To expect men to bring condoms

[Dockofthebaobun]

Since my divorce I’ve occasionally had hook-ups with men I’ve got chatting to online. The first time, the guy didn’t have condoms on him so we used mine. I thought it was odd for someone to meet for a shag and not bring condoms, and I wondered if he had genuinely forgotten or was just trying to chance it and see if I would without (er, not on your life mate, sorry).
Since then I have had three more hookups, the latest being last night. And now three out of four have ‘forgotten’ condoms.

What is it with these guys? They are all in their late 30s / 40s, all professional well-spoken men, with jobs and responsibilities and things. Why would they be so thoughtless and/or reckless with their sexual health?

Incidentally the best date by far was the one guy who did bring his own. I don’t think that’s necessarily a coincidence!

AIBU to expect them to bring their own? I always bring some, but God why should it be my responsibility?

And the old chestnut that keeps cropping up about women being killed by men they know- yes, that's true. But this isn't just about murder or serious assault. They are unlikely. More being asked to do sexual things you don't want to do, so they become nasty but not so violent that there is evidence.

But 'that old chestnut' is equally apt for the situation you describe here. Or do you think women aren't pressured into doing sexual things they don't want to do with partners/husbands who become nasty but not so violent that there is evidence?

Exactly.

In your situation I would insist on using my own provided for condoms, I wouldn’t trust my sexual health on someone I barely knew.

Indeed. There are an alarming number of threads on here by women who have woken up to find their ‘d’ h’s sexually assaulting or raping them, for example.

The reason they don't bring condoms when they KNOW they're going to get sex, is that they think you're a tramp who will agree to do anything.

That might sound harsh, but that is the reason.

InWithThePlums

Well I occasionally have sex with strangers and I do consider their feelings and safety so yes I would fucking expect that in return! Bloody hell”

Are you a woman? I can almost guarantee that men you are participating in such risky behaviour with don’t give a shit about your feelings and safety.

As much as I understand why you’ve used that language, as you’re reflecting what rhe men think, it’s not ok.

however at its core, yes the men do not think highly of the op. Even though she’s doing exactly what they are. Many men have e double standards like this. If they thought well of her, they’d bring condoms, because they’d wish to protect both of them. They just think they’re getting to ride bareback and they are lowlifes.

I’ll stand behind you and second you’re guarantee.

True . But the OP dosent care about them either.

I wonder what the OP would do or say if the man turned up at the hotel room and she found him repulsive or he had rotting teeth , stinking breath and reeked of sweat . How would she get out of the situation without it turning ugly ?

She meets them before hand, like car park or bar or something.

Maybe, but women view sex differently and her push Back makes it appear she does indeed care how they view her. Men and women view sex very differently , it’s why men use prostitutes and women very rarely do. The men will view this as similar to prostitution, just with no money changing hands. And she’s naive enough to think they maybe forgot the condoms. When clearly they didn’t, their view of this is very different to the ops.

she seems to do it for some Illicit thrill. Even when she’s away for work , finding and inviting a stranger to her room for sex. It’s unusual. And I really hope she stays safe.

Clearly not all women view sex differently otherwise men wouldn’t have anyone to have casual sex with.

Casual sex isn’t unusual.

@SouthLondonMum22

I think it's because a lot of women ( not all ) can't separate the emotions where sex is concerned. I've heard men talking where they have said they just want to fuck and go .

They don't want to go on a date , pay for things and talk , and spend time cuddling after sex . they just want to fuck and go. Maybe that's why they use prostitutes .Ive heard men say that they are paying for sex anyway by bringing a wage packet into the home . Yes really! .

It sounds like OP doesn’t want any of that either. I know I didn’t when I had casual sex, I’m still not a cuddler after sex now and I’m married.

I think you misunderstood my post. We were talking about not caring about the other person.

Sorry I agree with this it's because they think you are easy and cheap / low standards sorry but that's the reality

No, fair enough - my comment was an oversimplification. But the OP has repeatedly insisted that her assessments reduce the risk to very low. Shes under the impression that meeting the man in the lobby before going to the room and doing a video call before the hookup mean she can make an accurate assessment of whether she’d be safe. And quite honestly, that’s nuts. Violent, rapey men don’t broadcast the fact. As I said, it’s a risk but that’s up to OP.

I also think it’s disingenuous to compare the risk of stranger assault/violence to domestic violence. If the same number of women were having random hookups that were in relationships, there could be a statistical comparison. Millions of women are in relationships, tens of millions. There are not many women arranging no-strings hookups every week - even OP only does it once every few months. But even if the numbers WERE similar, if a man raised his voice to you on a hookup, you’d just leave. In DV situations, women don’t. Typically there’s a pattern of increasing aggression and violence - until one day the woman dies. It’s not the same thing at all. Women who are hurt and killed within relationships don’t leave when there are warning signs, for many different reasons. (And I speak as a woman who has experienced DV who took 7 years to leave). Women who are hurt within relationships typically experience a pattern which includes a series of red flags. When it’s a one-off meet the violence is an ambush because you don’t know this person and a polite conversation in the lobby isn’t enough to identify danger. I’m actually quite shocked that you’d try and use DV stats to minimise the risks of meeting a stranger for sex.

No one needs to justify their actions. As I said earlier, we all have a personal red line which will be different. I’m not really interested in whether someone arranges hookups or not, it’s nothing to do with me. My point was solely about the fact that blame and risk are not the same thing. Something can carry risk but it still doesn’t mean someone who chooses to accept the risk is to blame.

OP accepts the risk of meeting strangers and allowing herself to be put in a vulnerable position by having sex. At that point, if a man wanted to hurt her, there’s very little chance she could escape. So it’s a risk. But the only person to blame would be the man carrying out the violence. That’s my point.

That’s exactly why the risk is smaller though. DV is obviously complex and there are many reasons why women don’t tend to leave immediately which isn’t the case with a ONS, as you said, if the slightest thing happens such as him raising his voice then she can just leave.

Stating that the risk is small isn’t minimising it. The risk is small.

I am not surprised at what the OP has experienced. Influence of porn I would venture.

I agree with you that the risk is small, definitely. But by small I mean in terms of numbers. I think most men are very happy to meet up and have sex. Only a minority want the extra kicks of violence/rape. But there are other ways of quantifying risk.

I think that it’s very unlikely that the stranger would show his true colours before the woman is in a vulnerable position. So I think although in theory, she could just walk away if she felt threatened/in danger, the reality is that by that point she could only walk away if he was willing to let her….

So I think that if it did go wrong during a hookup and the man turned out to be violent, I don’t think it would be a slow escalation. It would literally be 0-100 right away so there’s the chance of really awful harm.

With a ONS there is a risk that you’re going to meet a man who always intends to hurt you. He will wait until the door is locked and you’re in a vulnerable position - and you’ve got no chance.

That’s the risk. And that’s why we always say to each other when going on dates “stay in public, don’t go back to his house, make sure someone knows where you are etc” - it’s to minimise the risk of being ambushed. With a ONS you’re effectively throwing every safeguard out of the window.

The chance of meeting that kind of man on an arranged ONS is low. But the same goes for dating - it’s unlikely that you’d be in danger. But we generally all agree it’s better not to risk it - because if you’re unlucky and you DO meet a bad one, you might not live to tell the tale.

So yes, in terms of risk the numbers of men who intend to hurt the woman are low, but if you do meet one, the risk of getting badly hurt is very very high.

As I said, we all determine our own acceptable risk level.

I have reported the posts where posters use words like "tramp" and "easy" as I consider them sexist, hateful slurs. I very much hope they are taken down, and personally I hope the posters are warned they will be banned if they continue using language that degrades women like that.

For those of you advising OP on safety, OF COURSE you are right she should be careful - we all should, all the time. But let's remember, the vast majority of rapes and other acts of violence against women are carried out by men well known to the woman such as a husband, long term boyfriend, or even a family member.
Statistically, she is at less risk if she limits her interactions to relative strangers....

But yes, any of us choosing to meet men either for hook ups, dates or anything else should:

1. Take all the steps we can to verify the man is who he says he is. (If possibly compare his dating profile to his social media, etc).
2. Where possible insist on meeting first of all in public place, even if you are happy to proceed to sex later that evening.
3. Make sure you have passed a trusted friend all the contact details you have for the man (including his photo). After you meet with him, if he is the man you are expecting and you proceed with the date/hook up, text her to let her know.
4. Let him know you have done this! This is absolutely essential and no even vaguely decent man will object.
5. Agree a time to check in with your friend, and what she will do if she doesn't hear from you.
6. Agree sexual ground rules before hand and always use condoms!

I would say these are equally relevant whether you are dating to meet a husband, or dating to get orgasms......

To be fair I think thr posters were saying it from the man’s point of view not their own, and I don’t agree your use of statistics, I think if the stats were done on women who put themselves in risky situations like this then the prevalence of assault or abuse wpuld be very high indeed.

YABU to think that men give two hoots about condoms and safe sex. Any man who will happily go to a hook up doesn’t care.

You are best using your own: how do you know they haven't put a pin through their's?