To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

Exactly. I didn't do cry it out but did controlled crying which involved one night of prolonged crying (not the entire night, I must add!). I have absolutely no time for people who tell me it's cruel. It would have been cruel to let my child continue having poor sleep night after night. Her mood and behaviour deteriorated, she became aggressive and unhappy with frequent meltdowns. After one night of sleep training she was transformed and back to her sunny self. How on earth is that cruel? I was also a much happier mum once I was sleeping again, which benefitted her.

How long has it been going on? I take it you’ve checked all the too hot, too cold, thirsty, teething, unwell options. It’s such a minefield.

The crying it out option didn’t sit well with me so I would literally go in to their bedrooms, sit next to the bed or cot and wait for them to drop off. Sometimes it took minutes, sometimes it took longer.
I found problems with sleep rarely resolved themselves over night and I did have to try and power through.

The worry I have with crying it out is it doesn’t solve the problem in the first place. They just learn that no one is coming to help. So they’ll still be anxious and have all the cortisol and adrenaline pumping around their bodies but they won’t communicate it to you. I’d hate for mine to feel like that when it is dark and they are alone.

Personally, I found that once I’d worked out why they were waking and they knew I would come if they wanted me, they felt safe and secure they would sleep brilliantly.

They are 4 and 9 now and sleep like logs.

Completely acknowledging how hard it is though because night after night of zero sleep is absolute torture and I hope you find a way that works well for you all 💐

Like an octopus searching for their keys 🥴

This is the type of bullshit I hate on these threads.

It might be the bravest thing for YOU and YOUR child, but not every parent and child (and parent and child relationship) are the same.

Similar to another PP, my child will stand up in his cot and cry 'Mummy, Mummy!' until one of us goes in to soothe him, getting increasingly worked up the longer we wait. He can take a significant time to console if we're delayed for any reason and has recently started telling us he's 'scared' (possibly nightmares, we don't know).

I'm not saying this to make anyone feel guilty and I do understand why people choose to sleep train, but I can't imagine for a second thinking that the bravest thing for ME to do in MY situation would be to leave my son alone and crying in the dark. To suggest that I'm simply being passive/choosing the easier path is really quite insulting.

The thing is that often there's no particular reason except they want to be up and cuddled by mummy or playing. Both my kids went through this at about 14 months. It's like they were now developed enough to realise that playing with mummy was more fun than lying in bed so they resisted bed. They had previously been good sleepers who fell asleep on their own but as they got older that changed. Sleep was boring! I thought "OK, they want to be with me. Fine" so we tried co-sleeping or me sleeping on their floor, next to their bed. However that didn't work because they wanted me to get them up and play!
I don't think many parents relish the idea of getting their children up at 2am for a play every night. Obviously it's very damaging to both the child and the parent to have such poor sleep. I had to re-teach them to go to sleep and not fight it. That bedtime was for sleep.
Often the only reason is wanting mum (or dad) every time you wake from a sleep cycle - which can be as often as every 45 minutes. If you've tried co-sleeping or just sitting with them and that doesn't work, then what do you do? I watched my children get into a terrible state because they didn't sleep and didn't know what was best for them. Many parents have jobs, have to drive a car safely and just basically need to function. It's not sustainable to be awake half the night, week after week.

I get it. I worked full time, I run my own business as a dog groomer so it’s physical and non stop so I absolutely understand the utter exhaustion that comes along with hardly any sleep then having to get up the next morning and start again.

I can only speak from my own experience and relate it to the post. Mine weren’t in a playful mood when they woke and I don’t think OP’s LO is (if I’ve read it correctly).

I've noticed that the people who lay into sleep training are almost always the ones that a) had okay sleepers (as in, could get a couple hours sleep at a time reliably, or better), or b) had the sort of set up where they could tolerate broken insufficient sleep for months or years on end. They didn't have the sort of job where they could kill someone if they work exhausted, or have to drive places where they could fall asleep at the wheel, they had family that would come and watch the baby for a couple hours so they could nap in the day, could afford a cleaner to sort the house or didn't have health issues exacerbated by poor sleep. Or their kid wakes up, they snuggle them for 5m and they're back to sleep for another couple hours. It's easy to get up through the night if it's for a short period. Some of us have kids that will be up for stretches of HOURS in the night.

It's easy to slag off sleep training when you have the sort of set up, resources and privilege to be able to cope with poor sleep indefinitely. Not everyone is so lucky! Some people have older kids they have to care for in the day, or health issues that get much worse when exhausted, or jobs that simply cannot be safely done by someone who is delirious with exhaustion. If you've never been that tired, to the point you're nodding off at the wheel or falling asleep standing up, you just won't get it.

I see a lot of negotiating with tiny children over bedtime, the parent almost waiting for permission from the child to go to sleep, or enabling the notion that at 1am if you want to get up and play and have a snack sure, you can. It really is the most loving, kindest thing to teach your kids young that bedtime is sleep time, and the middle of the night isn't time for a snack.

It's so rough for babies and toddlers when they are used to being rocked or fed to sleep, they're put down, then when they wake up 45m later they're suddenly in a different place alone when they nodded off seemingly seconds ago in their parent's arms. No wonder they need soothing back to sleep, perpetuating the cycle. Putting them down, awake, and giving them space to learn to fall asleep unaided so they can do the same when they wake in the night is by far the kindest route. It's not very fair to keep tiny children dependent on someone else to fall asleep. Yes it takes effort and time in the short term but it's worth it. Sets them up for good sleep hygiene and routines for life.

What kid wouldn't want to stay up and play and watch TV and have snacks instead of go to boring sleep lol. We're the adults though and sometimes have to do things we know are best for our children.

Sorry if it’s me but I don’t know if you’ve interpreted that post correctly?
I read it as SOMETIMES it’s the bravest thing to do (I.e. not in every situation) you have to parent the child you have

Well yes, if someone is taking their kid downstairs to watch TV at 2am then they aren't helping the situation. But to say that only people who have loads of support and money don't sleep train is ridiculous. We have no family for 200 miles. We both have lives to lead as everyone does. And both my babies went through periods of waking every twenty mins for weeks on end. No sleep training here thanks. Just plenty of ready meals.

'In some situations I think' would have made that clearer than 'Sometimes I think.'

Why is it assumed that babies /young children only affected if they are "abandoned" at night ?

If a mother is so totally exhausted in the day , for YEARS and , due to that , her children miss out on countless daytime experiences / have an (understandably) agitated parent that's "better" than a few nights if CIO ???

And that's fine if it worked for you. As parents we all (well, nearly all) love our children and want what's best for them and we all have different ways of trying to achieve this. What I don't like is people saying that sleep training is cruel and not best for the child.
When my babies were waking every 20 minutes they suffered immensely so I'm glad I solved the problem in a couple of nights for their sake. I was also a quivering nervous wreck and wasn't able to do my job or parent well. However, if you felt you could all cope with the 20 minute wake ups for weeks on end then that's a different matter.

But that's assuming every child will respond to it. Not all do/can.

You need to parent the child you have. If they'll go down after 10/20 mins of grizzling or an intense but short period of crying then it's all done after a few nights, then that's great. Especially if being with them just works them up. Like I say, they're all different.

But you have a child who will scream and scream, who will become anxious about going to bed despite all the routine building etc, who still wakes in the night, who doesn't (Even after multiple nights) "self soothe" but just screams into exhaustion, sleep training is not is not right for them - even Ferber of the Ferber Method book states towards the back, his method will not work on every child and if that turns out to be the case it is not recommended to continue as it will not be good for anybody.

Where did I say it was true in every case? You've asked people to believe your experience, but don't do the same for others. If we had needed to sleep train my DD, we could have. No chance it would have worked with my son. He did, as all kids do, eventually sleep on his own.

Any kind of 'cry it out/controlled crying' is more harmful than what the baby actually wants which is to sleep in close proximity/contact with you.

The gentler (supposedly) methods still rely on the child learning there is no point asking for attention/contact because what they are seeking will not happen. So they give up, shut down and this is handy for the parent, but not great for the developing brain.

There is evidence this isn't great, however not much and the reasons why are twofold:

• The studies truly necessary would take a very long time and be wholly unethical
• No one really wants to find that the answer is 'yes its horribly damaging' - there is no money in discovering this, and those who would like it proven aren't the ones with the money to fund it if it were possible.

The studies that claim to show it isn't harmful only really looked at whether those children would still seek attention during the day, and under the ages of 3 or 4, and didn't look any further. Well of course they will, because under that age they're incredibly needy and dependent, it takes a lot more than very context specific ignoring to shut that drive to seek attention from a primary care giver down!

Ultimately, its your kid, you'll do what you will and most people haven't the time or inclination to provide the co-sleeping comfort small humans need and want because they now have to earn money and tidy a house and haven't got a village of people to help them raise that child. There are no easy answers unfortunately.

I did cry it out. One night. Dc has slept through ever since.
I feel zero guilt. they seem perfectly happy.

How are you getting on OP?

Hideous; I think she’s poorly.

I wasn’t planning on sleep training yet though. Probably the end of the month.

Ah, hope you gets better soon and you all manage to get some rest!