To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

You said it was a shit thing to do. That strongly implies detrimental.

I could just as easily make the claim that not sleep training and allowing your child to have disrupted sleep for years on end is a lazy and shit thing to do, because parents can’t bring themselves to do the “hard” thing and sleep train.

I don’t actually believe that, I’m just showing how easy it is to cast nasty assertions.

You’re welcome to an opinion, using words like lazy and shit (especially when your opinion isn’t supported by evidence) is unnecessary.

Why does any child need to cry. Respond to their needs and they won't cry.

Yes it's tough, relentless, unforgiving. But it's temporary.

Or own the problem and say I'd rather my DC cry themselves to sleep than be tired myself.

You say she’s trying to get to you…so cuddle her.

Hahaha. Not true. Lots of babies will scream for hours no matter what you do. This is really not unusual!

Have you tried Ferber method?
That's what we did with one first boy.. I think he was about 5/6 months though. Sleeps beautifully. Second son, did no training and is a rubbish sleeper 😂😂😂

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5962992/
Here's a summary of some of the evidence. Further links included.

Randomised controlled trials are considered the highest form of evidence. Obviously every child is different, no study is perfect. But that applies to any study on any topic.

This has been completely debunked. My kid comes to me for help multiple times a day and whenever he’s sad. Also cries out for me at night if he’s sick/has an actual problem. Total nonsense said to scare exhausted parents who are at the end of their tether.

I wouldn’t call 3 years “temporary”. What my friend is still going through now…

My method is, they start the night in their own bed. If they wake, they come into mine. If I was worried about them falling out (I'm not because they are in between me and DH) then I'd put bed guards on the bed. If she is too close or stopping me from sleeping I'll get up and sleep elsewhere and she can sleep with DH. This has massively helped at night. She's secure and no crying required. I'm no longer massively disturbed or up for any length of time in the night. I don't judge people that CIO but what you seem to be saying is that not crying it out= no sleep for you. Cosleeping= no sleep for you. There are ways round that eg getting your partner to help/cosleep. Kids wake in the night. It's natural for a small child to be scared if they are alone in the night without a parent. As both kids got older they came in less and less -this is the key point to bear in mind- cosleeping doesn't mean it will last forever- and I got more and more child free time in my bed. I actually quite like it now if youngest comes in - maybe one night in 3- as it's nice to get snuggles when she's getting so big. Eldest is 9 and only ever comes in with us if she's been ill in the night.

@ChristmasCwtch "No idea why, but he needed me (reassurance, quick cuddle) to resettle"

This little snippet sums up to me why it just just about knowing your child. If it works for your child then sure, I can see why you would think it would be unkind to leave them. But one of mine would just stay awake as long as there was someone in with them. We could spend hours in with her, she'd be more or less happy, but she would not sleep. At all. She was permanently knackered so the kindest thing was to leave her a bit so she'd drop off, not hang out with her for hours on end in the middle of the night. By being there we were actually delaying her sleep, by hours on end.

We then had another baby who actually fell asleep when cuddled and soothed. So much easier! He got cuddled, of course he did. But it plain doesn't work for all children.

How did you resettle?

Would you leave an adult crying alone in a dark room? So why do it to a child? Babies need contact and reassurance.

At about nine months, for some reason, feeding to sleep stopped working for DD1. She got absolutely frantic about it. There was literally nothing we could do that would have stopped her crying. I could feed her until she was sick and she would scream intermittently while not going to sleep. Or I could hold her while she screamed to be fed, or DH could hold her while she cried but did go to sleep in the end (she didn't scream as much with him because he didn't smell of milk).

We went with the third option as I didn't want to go straight from feeding to sleep to full sleep training, that felt harsh. And then we did do some sleep training to get her to fall asleep in the cot, but to be honest the hard bit was that first bit.

Sounds like a perfect excuse for any behaviour then don't blame the child it's not nurture.
I've supported lots of families who's kids amazingly sleep through with me but not at home, who's kids are incapable of not screaming in the car without food but happily go in mine....that's conditioning X with do this if I, y won't.
Your child decided they didn't need you every night not all reach this stage

The problem is people assume that all other children are the same as theirs and then go round criticising parents who do things differently.

If you have two with different personalities you understand better I think

I think definitely do what you need to and what you're able to live with. I didn't sleep train, my son didn't sleep through until 2 years old and my daughter is on a similar trajectory. However, and it's a big one, I'm generally fine with little sleep hence my saying, do whatever you need to and can live with

I’m pretty sure the scientific evidence does state that sleep training is detrimental.

We are fairly good at being a team when it comes to bed time routines and sleep and wakings in the night, but we still can't co-sleep. Neither of us are comfortable with it, neither of us sleep, both of us wake up with pains. We've tried what you have outlined and I know it works for so many but it just isn't something that works for us. OP has repeatedly said co-sleeping doesn't work for her either!

First 6 months in a bassinet in your room, right next to you.The move it a bit away. Then cit in the next room at about 12 months - buy a cheap mattress for the floor. You and DH alternate lying there until bub is asleep. Hold their hand, sing ,whatever. Shorten the amout of time you stay.
As I'm a sook any screaming in the night I bring into bed with me, all can sleep on their own now.
Good luck.

I think this was in response to my description of cry it out vs controlled crying?

Tbh, i am amazed there is so much support for Cry it out on this thread. I'm sure research came out to say the crying floods the baby's brain with stress hormones and can affect them long term?

I had excellent success with both cry it out and controlled crying but i'd always recommend controlled crying now. In combo with a fixed bedtime routine. It works just as well and nearly as fast.

To the modern co sleeping method (ancient but modern!) my granddaughter is on that method. She (12 months) happy as a larry. Parents both look like the walking dead!! They can't use any babysitters and even lie with her for daytime naps. That might be ok with a first baby where one parent stays home (as is the case for my GD)

But - i had 5 kids. And found it an absolute breeze because i had undisturbed sleep every night. I also worked as a childminder, returning from each mat leave when my new baby was 6 weeks old.

So - i do think - for our working lifestyles, it is really impt to get a full night's kip so you can be a great parent by day. And i just don't think co sleeping facilitates undisturbed sleep.

All mine adult now. There doesn't seem to be any difference between cry it out DCs and the controlled crying ones - but who knows.

Still a big fan of controlled crying.

We used cry it out. It isn’t cruel. You make sure they are alright. Say goodnight and close the door. Go downstairs and pour a glass of wine. I’m not saying I agree with it, but years ago we knew a couple who did this with a brand new baby!

I despise CIO.
If I were upset/crying/distressed and my DH didn’t respond/left me crying for a while, I’d be absolutely furious and would feel very unloved.
I’d be extremely resentful and would think him very cruel and cold.

And yes, I spent many nights/hours trying to settle 2 DC to sleep/back to sleep. I had two, under two years of age.
I did not and would not have ever left them to cry.

No, I didn’t teleport to their bedside if I heard them crying. It might have taken me a minute or two to get up the stairs.
Yes, it was exhausting and yes, I had work the next day. A class full of kids, to be precise, so no flying under the radar there!

I also had many nights of changing wet beds; they both went through long phases of this.

They’re now 16 and 17 and will text me if they are unwell or if they need me. They are by no means mollycoddled! I have fairly vociferous arguments with DS2 😂

I don’t claim to have been the perfect parent. But I would never have left my children to CIO. Because I’d hate it if someone who ostensibly loved me, left me to “self-soothe.” GTF.

Exactly.
I have just posted a similar comment.

I did the same - and when you go in, my book said (!) to not touch them, say the same short phrase every time so they know you're there but then leave quickly and start your timer again. Up to a max of 5 mins, when you get to 5 mins don't increase it anymore, just keep repeating. Not easy but it did work for both my babies. If it's more than an hour though, give up and try again the next night. I've got 2 great sleepers now, neither of them remember anything of course and we all have a good night's sleep xx

My younger one was an absolute nightmare and we tried everything but she could scream and cry at night for hours. By 18 months I was at breaking point. The GP was about to refer us to a sleep clinic when I stumbled across a piece of advice that turned it all around in two days. Basically a sleep pattern reset

Instead of trying to settle her in the early evening, we kept her up and awake until we were ready for bed. She was so tired it was only a token protest and she slept longer than she had ever done. The next day she was only allowed a very short nap and again we kept her up. She slept in til 7am!

The third night we put her down an hour earlier and again she slept through. We repeated this every night until she was sleeping 7pm- 7am reliably every night.

The downside was a very tired, very grumpy, utterly horrible toddler in the evening for 2 nights but it was well worth it.