To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

You have no idea what I did at night time.

Repeating my request for any actual evidence apart from just your opinion?

It wasn't obvious to me I should respond when they cried at night given going in again and again resulted in hours of crying whereas just leaving them resulted in 15 minutes of crying.

Incidentally, my CIO child was an excellent sleeper from 2 and still is now half way through primary. The one I let into our bed, sat with in the night and patted to sleep (because I didn't have a baby to take care of at the same time) is still dreadful and has woken every night for the past year aged 4.

Multiple links posted up thread. Shall I Google that for you?

I will read that as you personally haven't done any reading on it or actually done it but feel informed enough to label others parents 'cruel' for doing things differently from you.

The lady doth protest too much.

I've researched my choices, and I'm confident that while I might not get it always 100% right, I'm definitely not doing anything that is raising my children's cortisol levels unnecessarily. You're very defensive and aggressive for someone who supposedly feels the same...

I wasn't the one trying to tear other mothers down by labelling them cruel. Holding someone accountable for their remarks is not aggressive, maybe it just feels that way because you can't justify it.

Thank you Ms Expert on Everyone, I am 52, post menopause and slept in until 1pm last Sunday.

I have 5 kids and they varied massively on how well they slept as babies. 3 of them slept through from very young and didn't need much comfort from me at all. The other two were very bad sleepers and struggled to fall asleep and to stay asleep. They're all older now and they are mostly the same, the good sleepers still fall asleep quickly and sleep soundly, the bad sleepers can still take longer to go off and don't always sleep well (although a hell of a lot better than when they were babies) . However, I'm glad I never did CIO because as much as it was extremely hard at the time I never wanted them to feel like I wasn't going to comfort them.

Exactly.

People are quick to snap that all babies are different when it comes to sleep training not working for every baby but then all babies seem to suddenly be the same when someone explains that something else works for their baby, including the fact that not all babies want to be cuddled, rocked or comforted to sleep.

DS slept so much better when we realised that. He would turn his head to the side, do this low, whiney cry for 2-5 minutes (something he only did when tired) and then go to sleep. Cuddling etc would lead to actual crying and less sleep.

I don't need my opinion or sentences to be "fixed up" by you.

Perish the thought that people have different opinions.

I would say it depends on the child, no one approach fits everyone. My experience -

DS1 (terrible sleeper) would get hysterical to the point of vomiting if left even for 5 mins. This was not just as a tiny baby but up to 2 years old. I could not do CIO with him despite being absolutely desperate for sleep. It was cruel and counter-productive. After I went back in he would sob and hiccup for a good 2 hours all red-faced and upset. So I did not try it.

DS2 - same parenting, different child, different temperament. Would get cross for a few mins if I-one came to get him, would stop crying the minute I went in and be happy and sunny (the crying was to shout for me / being cross, not upset crying) and learnt to self-settle within 2 days with minimal upset.

PS I agree with the PP - DS2 did NOT want to be held when he was overtired (unlike DS1)

Well that's a strong opinion you've formed there. Gosh reading so much into what I said.

You seem overly invested and massively projecting on the presumptions and arrogance. Just lighten up😂

You sound exhausted, and if you are, the baby probably feels worse as they need even more sleep.

I think crying for one or two nights is better than snatched minutes of sleep for days on end.

I have older kids and this will be one of many battles you’ll face. Take no notice of named methods either. You know your child. Try different things until you find the thing that works, including, (once you know they aren’t sick or hungry) just putting some soft lighting on, playing some lullabies, shutting the door and going downstairs, listening out and if it goes quiet quietly popping you head in to ensure they are ok and asleep.

In my experience children will sleep through the night when they are ready regardless of what we do ! My first 2 slept through from about 12 weeks my next slept through at 4 YEARS !!! No difference in parenting styles my next was a bugger for about 2 years and the last was like her big sibling and slept f try on about 10weeks . The worst sleeper even now doesn’t need much sleep . They are all in their 30s now and you will get through it but it is hard . Try what feels right you . If you feel comfortable with what you choose life will be easier good luck’
oh please note our granddaughter is now asking every night and it’s harder when your 60 !!!!

I haven't read the full thread and I'm not going to. But I'll tell you that from a very young age we left both our babies to settle themselves to sleep and if they cried, we left them alone to 'cry it out'.

I hated it. Really. There was one time my husband physically stopped me from going into the bedroom to pick up my son to cuddle him. But he was right because on that occasion, just a few minutes later our son stopped crying and fell asleep.

Both mine slept through before 3 months old. By 'slept through' I mean: fed at about 7pm. Sleep till about 10. Another feed, then sleep till about 6 or 7am.

I think we did the right thing but I do remember some days being absolutely awful when they cried for what seemed like ages.

Depends what you mean by cry it out..
Some babies do self soothe better if a parent isn't there.
I can tell when my baby is tired abd just wants to be placed alone in the dark. She gruzzles for a few mins and then falls asleep. If I stayed with her she'd get hysterical as she'd be trying to stay awake to interact with me and would get overtired.
However some babies cannot self soothe and need your presence to calm down.
I would not ever leave a baby crying for more than 30 mins (unless its an emergency obv) . Less if it's hysterical crying, maybe 10 mins.
Personally I think you have to play it by ear.
If you think your baby is getting more worked up by you being there then yeah, leave them alone for 30mins to see if they settle themselves. Not all babies will tho unfortunately.

Wow, well good for you, clearly I wasn’t referring to the entire population, but you’ll find poor sleep is a common symptom. I can’t think of anything worse than sleeping half of one of my 2 days off work either, but sleeping until 7 would be my dream.

Yeah my worst sleeper is not an adult who lie’s in. Even as a teenager he was up around 8am on the weekend. He caused me so much stress and exhaustion first 2yrs of his life and he’s 20 now and I can honestly say he’s not caused me a day’s trouble. Such a good kid, but those first 2yrs, i’ve wiped out the memory!

Someone said upthread “would you leave an adult alone in a darkened room while they were crying”
OP responded well IMO but I will add - wouldn’t it be even weirder if you kept walking in, patting them on the back and walking back out again?
OP wouldn’t be teaching her child that “nobody will come when I am upset” the child will
inevitably get upset over other stuff, falls for example and the OP will comfort them. She is teaching them that they have to stay in their cot and sleep and that protesting about it won’t change that fact.
I don’t think it’s cruel (and again, I say that as someone who co-slept for years because it worked for us)
The current generation of youngsters are some of the least resilient and most afraid that we have ever had. They’ve mostly been raised through gentle and therapeutic parenting methods. What does that tell you? They need to know that someone is in charge!
Im sure OP‘s child gets plenty of reassurance and love during other times of the day. I would definitely try CIO OP and let us know how you get on. I hope it works out for you.

Sometimes I feel cry it out is the braver approach. It's so hard to listen to your child cry and in a way easier just to be more passive and put up with crappy sleep. But in most cases I think it's for the best of the child and the rest of family to get a decent night sleep. You are making a tough but needed decision to make everyone's lives better.

Sleep training falls under things like teeth brushing when your child doesn't want you to, taking them for their vaccinations, and sending them to school when they would rather stay at home and play. Things that in the moment your kid doesn't enjoy and would rather not happen, but as the parent you understand that it's necessary for their health and wellbeing. It's hard as a parent to sleep train but when you love your child and want the best for them it's often the most loving path you can take. It's not fair on anyone, the child or the parents, to be up awake every single night not getting good quality restful sleep.

I think we often forget that sleep is a literal need and not just something optional you can do without.

Well said