To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

Well no 😅but its quite clear even from this thread that it can take years for some children. And having 8/9/10/11 year olds who still can't sleep properly is really no fun for anyone and very harmful for the child.

I feel completely the same! My in laws continuously suggest I should be co sleeping with my kids despite me repeatedly telling them the kids don't sleep, I don't sleep, we wake each other up, and I wake up crippled with back pain! It's not for everyone and that's OK. Controlled crying isn't for everyone, CIO isn't for everyone. Thankfully there are different methods and you will find one that works for you and your DD - hang in there!

Sleep training is lazy parenting ultimately- there’s absolutely no need for it. You can dress it up to justify it however you like but it’s still a shit thing to do.

I think the "problem" with cry it out, is that mother's who say they won't or would never allow a baby to cry are literally picturing in their minds those poor Romanian orphans who were left to cry so much they never cried again. It's not the same. Leaving your well-loved baby to cry and self-settle for a few minutes might make them cross and upset you, but it's not going to harm them.

Like other posters I had twins. It is impossible to do all the softly-softly stuff with two babies when you're on your own. Are all twins doomed? Must be even worse with higher number multiples!

Honestly @notarisingfan, I'd say you can only try it and see if it works. With my third child I took a week off to get him out of my bed and off the breast, because by then I was back at work full time and exhausted, permanently. Still remains one of the best parenting decisions I ever made. I did a previously mentioned staggered response thing, so back at 1 min, then 2, then 4, then 8; just shushed and said "night night, baby, see you in the morning". Took a couple of hours the first night, 20 minutes the second, by the third he just laid down, nodded off and cried tears of relief. He's been a brilliant sleeper since. I know you've said this hasn't worked but wanted to add my experiences in case you feel emboldened to have another go.

(PS he's not here at the moment, but whenever threads like this pop up I almost always ask him if he remembers any of it or if he has any feelings about it and he almost always just gives me a look and says of course he doesn't remember it, he's nearly 13!).

There are some longitudinal studies all of which found no long term differences between children but better mental health for parents for families where they had sleep trained.
There have been no studies showing any detrimental effects of sleep training.

There have however been studies showing it is detrimental for children to be in an orphanage where they remain in their cot all day with little adults contact. For some reason some people get an orphanage mixed up with a family home. Probably due to sleep deprivation!

By the way, I’m not opposed to CIO. I did that with my kids too. In fact I had a sleep consultant who explicitly said that some kids will get more upset and confused at the parents’ presence in the room, which ultimately makes the whole ordeal harder than necessary.

Surely they should be in nappies at night time then??

Haven't read all the thread but I think cry it out is NOT cruel. It only takes a couple of nights then everyone get to sleep properly. It's almost as simple as that. The kid ends up crying a lot less that all the nonsense with trying to gentle ease them into being left longer.

Sleep is one of the most important things for a kid so getting them to sleep soundly is huge.

The crying out but is harsh but that is so quickly replaced with relaxing easy bed times

So give me some reasons why so many older children still climb into parents beds every night and adults need the security of noise so they don't feel alone?

Except the scientific evidence doesn’t support your statement that it’s detrimental, so would you like to retract your totally unnecessary guilt-tripping and judgement of other mums who are trying to do their best?

I don't know but I bet there aren't many people who regret using cry it out with their kids.

I certainly don't.

I don't think there is anything kind about cry it out.

To me, "gentler methods" means being with your child when they're distressed until they're not distressed any more, and going back to be with them again until they're not distressed any more every time until they're not distressed.

"Gentler methods" that involve leaving for set periods of time that your child doesn't understand, or creeping a chair across the room which your child won't understand, or standing near your child but not offering any comfort, are all NOT gentler methods IMO. They're weird ways to behave towards another person, never mind a person who looks to you for all their comfort and security. I would not feel comforted by my husband standing expressionlessly near to me while I cry.

I want to teach my babies that I will be there each and every time they need me. They get massive confidence from this, and IMO become more independent in a shorter time frame (independent, not compliant/silent).

No, no I wouldn’t. I didn’t specifically say it was detrimental. I said it was lazy. In my opinion it is. I’m allowed to hold whatever opinion I like thanks. You don’t have to like it, I really don’t care.

Parenting is meant to be hard. If people can’t be arsed with the hard bits they shouldn’t have kids, and they certainly shouldn’t keep having more.

Half the time they aren't actually distressed though. It's more them wanting to be up at 3 a.m to play rather than waking up thinking they are all alone in the world. My oldest was like that, thought that playing in the middle of the night was OK because he could nap in the day. As I couldn't, he had to be trained to understand that night time is for sleeping.
And making a rod for your own back is the way to martyrdom.

Haha I have two different friends who still spend the night with their six year olds because they didn't sleep train when younger and the child refuses to sleep alone. They haven't slept in a bed with their partner since the child was born.

Some children might grow out of it but sleeping alone is cultural/sociological - biologically and evolutionarily speaking it would make sense for everyone in a family/clan to sleep together for warmth and comfort, as was practice for thousands of years until comparatively recently. My gran didn't sleep in her own bed until she was sixteen and her older sister got married, because they just didn't have enough beds, and that was completely normal on their street - 1950s working class tiny terraces and lots of kids. So given the choice lots of kids might very well prefer to sleep with someone forever!

I think we get too hung up on exactly how much our parenting decisions affect things like this. It’s impossible to know. I co-slept with mine until 3 and even after that, still let him come in to bed in the night. He is nearly 7 and doesn’t do it anymore and is an excellent sleeper. Do I think that I had a hand in him being an excellent sleeper? No idea but probably not. I’d imagine it’s more his nature than anything I did. We co-slept because it worked for us. It doesn’t work for everyone.

We also did this, worked within 2 days and i wish we'd done it sooner! The alternative was every night taking about 3 hours with lots of crying and much reduced sleep being had.

Depends on the child. My son would literally hurt himself if I left him (smack his head against floor/wall/cot kind of thing). So I had to stay with him until he fell asleep.

Precisely this.

This is why I don't trust any claims made around studies of the effects of sleep training (although feel free to send links @DinosaurMunch) because there are so many decisions we as parents make on a daily basis that will impact our child's personality and temperament. And so many that won't. It's impossible to measure what doesn't and doesn't impact, and this will vary by child, therefore I don't think it's possible to conduct a robust, controlled study on the long term effects of sleep training when there are far too many variables.

That's why it needs to be a considered choice around what works for you as a family.

what i did is not "weird* tyvm, withdrawing without offering physical comfort is teaching them you're there, so they're not on their own, and they can sleep knowing the person who comforts them is near by.

And no, having someone 'standing expressionlessly near' isn't comforting, but are you weirded out by him being in the room with you if you're sleeping and he isn't? thats 'weird' if you ask me, i've always felt safe knowing someone else is around if i want to sleep.

my ds is autistic, and nothing else worked, my presence and slow removing of myself helped him learn to self soothe and regulate his emotions without me adding sensory input of noise/touch into the equation.

He is now 18 (socially/emotionally still only 10ish really) and will still come and seek comfort from me at night if he feels sick or scared, or just wants a hug for whatever reason.

just because it isn't how you would things, or doesn't work for your kids/family, it doesn't make it weird.

I reckon you should do it. When it works, in likely a very short period of time, you then get your mental and physical wellbeing restored. You will probably spend more time playing with the baby, being slightly more responsive, preparing an extra vegetable in the meal etc. A lot of this you may not even notice but it will be better for you and hence better for baby as well. Try not to feel bad about it.

We sleep trained our baby at 12 months by letting her cry it out with check ins and then increased the time. By night 3 she barely cried and by 4 was trained.
At around 20months we went on holiday and then had lots of family visiting so this went out the window. We trained her again at 2 and as she is older and more strong willed it took a week and a bit.
She sleeps so much better and we have our life back again.

This is what we did too. Just check in, reassurance and few pats and left.

Yes but that means you go to bed at 7 every night??

I felt my baby slept much better once trained.