To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

We don’t have room for a floor bed and honestly I have to say I really don’t fancy sleeping on the floor, it also doesn’t solve the other issues surrounding co sleeping. I just don’t like it, to be honest, I remember a character called Sleep-Alone from one of the Enid Blyton books and that’s me!

I found one of my DC really turned a corner with their sleep after waking up ill and distressed one night and us coming quickly to help them. It was like they felt they could just relax and go to sleep in their bed because we were there if needed. I'm not sure how you'd replicate that scenario in a training way though.

Dd7 goes to sleep by herself. Always has done as I implemented good sleeping habits from day one (my job) and I know babies and toddlers are happier with sleep

Some of her friends sleep. Many need a parent to stay. Sit in room till they go to sleep

This also means when they wake at 2/3/4am their mum has to sit with them till she falls sleep

I have a friend who has kids like this

Friend wakes up on the floor by bed early am due to crick neck - cold etx

Oh dear , shouldn’t they be wearing some form of night pants then . So uncomfortable for a wet bed everynight.

My 17 month old was the same as yours. If I went in when he was crying it made him worse. He didn’t want to be on me, or DH but didn’t want to be in bed either. I couldn’t stand the crying but going in didn’t help either. I was always very against crying it out but we had a week where DH was away with work and my 4 year old was up and down as well with a bug so I had to let the baby cry for longer than I’d have liked to as I was busy with the 4 year old. It worked though and after a couple of days he settled fine and at the moment (touch wood), is sleeping through for 12 hours a night! It is hard to hear though.

I know 13 year old who still gets into bed with parents at night, lots of 8/9 year olds too and a lot of adults need TV or noise all night.

This thread is more balanced than others, thank goodness. But there’s still a lot of harmful and emotionally manipulative bollocks about sleep training popping up 🙄.

If co-sleeping had been on the radar in my day I would probably have done it. It was simply unheard of. I do think it’s the most kind and compassionate way for your child to sleep. For those who simply won’t / can’t for whatever reason then controlled crying is a much better way than ‘cry it out’. Imho.

Problem is you can’t have both things at the same time of getting her to sleep happy and fast but you also not having to spend hours making it happen unless you just go all in and do CIO is (in my opinion) is predominantly for the parents benefit in the main, because it is faster than other methods and doesn’t involve all the inconvenience of sitting on the floor next to them. The other methods like slow withdrawal are really hard and take a long time but they do work with consistency they just might break you a little in the process and only you know what you can tolerate so it is your comfort vs your babies comfort and there is no other way to put this 😂

You have to weigh up what’s best for you and go with it. I don’t think anyone can make you feel better about what you choose to do and I am not trying to make you feel bad - if you do not want to do any of the withdrawal, co sleeping, controlled crying etc then you don’t have many options left.

CIO never worked with mine either.

I had to do gradual withdrawal which involved me sitting on the floor next to their cot, hand through the bars. I wouldn't pick them up, i'd lay them down, sit down next to them and soothe/hold their hands, so i was there just not physically picking them up.

Then once they were asleep i would shuffle for the door carefully.

Gradually over a few nights i would stop holding hands and just sit next to the cot, then would sit a little further away and just verbally shush/soothe, eventually i could sit right by the door, then outside.

It took longer, and my butt did not thank me, but it worked!

@jannier co-sleeping is probably not the reason for that.

We all wake up during the night. Too hot, too cold, need the loo, bad dream. But we go back to sleep. What we don't do, mostly, is get up and wander around or wake everyone else in the house up. Sleep training isn't getting your child to always sleep through the night. It's about learning that night time is for sleeping and that we self soothe to get back to sleep.

Can you incorporate patting her on the back (keeps her from standing up again) for a couple of minutes (timed) before you leave for four minutes etc?
Have you tried a weighted blanket or small heavy flat soft toy for her back?

Funnily enough I’ve just seen a post on Facebook about a woman who is still up every single night with her eight year old. It is this sort of stuff I dread to be honest!

Sleep in incredibly important. And just like many, many other things, babies need to the taught how to sleep. Some are better than others. Refusing to teach your baby how to sleep and self settle, in the hope it will just come naturally at some stage, is doing them a huge disservice.

Every baby is different and you know your baby best OP, so you know what's best to do in your circumstances. I've done cry it out with one of my kids (no need with the other). Just as a heads up, it did not take 1 day like in your case, it took more than a week. But it did work. So if it doesn't work immediately, don't give up.

One of my 3 was an absolute nightmare and just wouldn't settle. Reluctantly, I eventually took my mum's advice. I'd put baby in her cot. She'd yell and stand up. I'd put her down again, go downstairs and put the radio on high for 5 minutes to drown the yelling. Go back upstairs to find her screaming. Say nothing. Put her down again. Go back downstairs and put the radio back on. And did this on repeat...Her room was dark but not pitch black. There was no reason why she wouldn't settle that I could see but she just didn't want to go to sleep. Thing is, I was exhausted and my husband worked long hours and wasn't there to help. Daughter was over tired and so was I. Allowing her to dictate her sleeping pattern was affecting our relationship and my ability to function. I was the adult and had to make an adult decision. After a few nights of her (and me) crying, it worked. She slept, I relaxed and life changed.😊

You won't be up with an 8 year old either way Op unless you're vanishingly unlucky, mine were such shit sleepers when little but totally different older. My older one is a night owl like me, still finds it hard to GET to sleep but once he's down he's down, and he (also 8) stays in his bed with his books and pens and paper till he can drop off. Sometimes Yoto or audiobook too.

I don't think there's this correlation like some people are implying, the sleep thing is developmental, I don't think the sleep habits we "train" into our kids stick that long after infancy tbh.

I can see why people are pushing co-sleeping cos for many of us it is the answer but it sounds like it really isn't for you! If you are so physically uncomfortable doing it you will just be constantly woken and then wake LO up as you say.

But you and he have suffered sleep deprivation for months, totally unnecessarily. You could have sleep trained him at 6 months and had 12 hours undisturbed most nights for the past year. The total crying would have been much less.

Sleep is developmental and cry it out just teaches them you're not coming back.

By 6 months babies are developmentally able to sleep for stretches of at least 8 hours. In fact many babies do so from much younger. There's absolutely no developmental reason why a child of 17 months can't sleep through - on the contrary, they need to sleep for long periods to help their development.

A well cared for baby knows you are coming back. They learn that you aren't there right now so may as well go to sleep. Sleep trained babies still wake and cry in the night if they are ill or something else is bothering them. If they knew you weren't going to come they wouldn't bother. You are mixing up an orphanage with a loving family home.

Could she be hungry? Maybe give her some milk and buttered toast before bedtime

My niece, who is 5 and a half, still won't go to sleep in her own room, she sleeps on a mattress beside her parents bed. And she takes ages to settle, one of her parents has to sit with her for well over an hour. Every single night.

I've also witnessed friends putting their 8,9,10 year olds in bed and then running back and forwards to them multiple times as they cant get to sleep, sometimes going on for upwards of a couple of hours.

Children need to be taught how to sleep and it's doing them a huge disservice not to teach them, sleep is incredibly important for growth and development.

'In the hope that it will come naturally at some stage' 🤣 as if babies that aren't 'taught' to sleep turn into adults that have been awake for 35 years.

@DinosaurMunch that's just really inaccurate. And some of us aren't prepared to let our kids experience distress like that.

Children will usually learn to sleep if you do nothing. DD2 and DS used to cry for a bit, less than 10 minutes and then settle themselves. DD2 sleeps really well. DS gets himself to sleep but does wake up lots (but still gets himself back to sleep).
DD1 we did controlled crying. 10 minutes then go in, lie her down, rub her back until she was calm and repeat. It took an hour and a half the first night and I nearly gave up. DH did the second night following the same routine and it took half an hour. Night three it took DD less than 5 minutes to fall asleep and she stayed asleep all night. She also sleeps well now.

I hear you. My second was like this.

I don't think some degree of crying is bad but you can usually tell the having a little winge from the angry crying to the sobbing.

Have you tried leaving her longest first? I.e are you going straight away but then she becomes more hysterical?

Is there anything you can put on for her? We were given a light thing activated by noise (so crying) that played a tune and projected Disney pictures on the ceiling. It did help a bit with distraction and building new patterns.

I found it easier to take the side off the cot and put stair gate across the bedroom door. She did appear there but it was easier to return her to bed and pat. I tried not to cuddle too much. Just 'its bed time' and put back in.

I had to stay in the room at first with my back to her but no attention.

It might take an awful few nights but it was easier to return them in some way than the lying down which as you say is pointless and murder on the back.

It's the super nanny way I think which is also out of favour but i don't think martyrdom motherhood is successful for anyone either.