To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

There is nothing kind about cry it out.

Definitely could be kinder in the circumstances you describe! One night vs many etc.

Can you try letting her crying for just 10 minutes at a time, instead of the total cry it out method?
Then she knows you'll come back, but she knows it won't happen immediately and you'll get some sleep. It will take longer but not as long as methods with no leaving her for even a moment.

That sort of what I was envisioning @peppermintteacup

The current situation is just not sustainable for either of us. She’s getting nowhere near enough sleep.

Today she woke at 540. Nap at 12 woke at half one. I couldn’t get her to sleep until nearly 8pm. Woke at 12 then again at 130, just gone back to sleep now. Just isn’t anywhere near enough sleep.

I do get where you're coming from but I could never do total cry it out. I did timers - 2 mins and then back in, increase to 3 mins, increase to 4 mins and then I would keep doing 4 mins until asleep. I found it worked really well.

I just found that got DS so worked up. He couldn’t understand why I was coming in and not comforting him (picking him up.)

Crying out is cruel.
I resettled child. No pick up. Said goodnight. Left.
No play. No light. No fun. And repeat.

You say cry it out is cruel but then describe ‘say goodnight. Left.’

I do that to DD … she cries.

so without wanting to be awkward that surely is a form of cry it out, unless your child does not cry in which case it is not needed in the first place!

I think there comes a point when you either have to decide to wait it out and get another parent more involved to make the nights more sustainable for you or you sleep train.

If you don’t want to wait it out or can’t get the other parent involved then sleep training is much of a muchness really.

Night weaning could be another option if you haven’t tried it already.

Agree OP, mine cried every time. If I left for 1 min, then 2, then 3 she just got more and more upset each time. It felt less cruel to let her cry until she slept then give her false hope at every interval, which made her near hysterical.

she is night weaned … this is the odd thing, she has a drink of water overnight but not milk. I honestly think it’s just a habit. But I really really need more sleep than I’m getting. I remember getting quite depressed with it all with ds, and while that hasn’t happened yet the feelings of frustration and sometimes anger overnight are familiar.

I’m glad it isn’t just me, that’s exactly what happens.

I am dreading it as it’s bloody awful listening to them howling but it really did give me my life back after one night with ds. It sounds awful but I just really dread being one of those parents still up at night with a six year old, you know?

Resettle child. Say goodnight and leave.
Don't do a lot. Focus is it's nighttime and not a lot of service offered. Mine have never been left to cry.

CIO is an extinction method also will be faster and arguably less confusing for the child than ferber etc- they learn you don't respond at night rather than being confused by you coming back and going again.

I used Lucy Wolfe stay and support which I thought was really good. DD regressed again and started waking in the night when she was older but we did have a good 10 months of her sleeping through the night after doing it. Also helpful for scheduling - it sounds like your little one might be overtired causing the frequent wakes!

You don’t understand and that post makes it clear you don’t understand.

She cries. I go into her. Resettle her? How, when she’s standing up in the cot with her arms out? Our her down again and she stands up crying with her arms out, repeat, repeat, repeat, she gets more and more hysterical as you try to lie her down.

So you leave as you blithely say. And she is crying! Do that is … cry it out.

mine have never been left to cry

neither has this one ,.. yet. But I will have to if I’m going to get any sleep before 2025.

Sorry X post, I have the Lucy Wolfe book from no1 but my staying just seemed to work him up more, and dd seems similar.

If you do nothing OP her sleep will get better on its own. It’s not at all unusual to still wake in the night at that age. It is very unlikely that she will be doing this at 6yo.

Do you have a partner?

I tried your gentle method with my first one; it didn't work for her either. With my second I co-slept and never had any sleeping issues. Could never do CIO.

I don’t know about that marigold tbh. I think poor sleepers stay poor sleepers unless you intervene. Ds was 18 months when I finally sleep trained him and it was really starting to affect my relationship with him and with my husband as I was so angry and resentful.

It affects everything. My work is affected, my friendships have been affected (some permanently) my older child is affected, my relationship with my husband. It isn’t like the newborn days where it’s sort of expected - toddler poor sleep is a different level I think.

With co sleeping we just disturb one another. Plus she’s fallen out of bed twice! And it knackers my back.

Can you set the bed up differently? We co-slept in a big bed with a mobile bed guard on his side. DH moved to another bedroom for a while, but it was worth it.

Hi OP,

I'm really sorry you are struggling with this.

FWIW, my DS was like this and he didn't sleep alone until 7 years old, and it's still a struggle now he's a teen. He's diagnosed with special ed needs and is home schooling with EBSA.

Tbh, I don't think there is necessarily an easy answer, but I hear you on how hard it is.

Co sleeping really isn’t for me. I call it no sleeping. We just disturb one another all night and wake constantly. It also really hurts my back.

sorry to hear that @RoundAgain … very difficult for you.

Before you think I’m posting on the wrong thread, please read on. This is about controlled crying vs cry it out.

I am doing a course at the moment led by a woman, who has extensively researched anorexia and whose research helped write the NICE guidelines. So highly respected. On the course we were discussing something called The Reassurance Trap. This concept is the more you reassure the person, the more their anxiety will grow leading you to having to reassure them less it works, escalating the problem.

The course leader brought up controlled crying for babies as an example of The Reassurance Trap. If you scroll down past some of the writing you will see the model of The Reassurance Trap in the book she co-wrote, which is used in the corse. https://newmaudsleycarers-kent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Worksheet-5.3.pdf

She asked us for experiences and I spoke of mine with cry it out, which was accidental when my dd was about 2 weeks old. Dd fell asleep and I transferred her to her Moses basket and I went for a very quick shower. She awoke whilst I was covered in shampoo. I sped up and was just getting out of the shower when she went back to sleep. Thereafter I was able to put her down whilst awake. She self soothed for a few seconds and less than a minute before going to sleep.

The course leader’s comment was ‘thank goodness you were in the shower’. I know she’s not a paediatrician. But I’m very pleased I was too. When my dd was older, maybe 17 months she woke in the night as she was ill. When she was better and thereafter, she decided to wake up at the same time every night. Once dd was awake, she’d want to play for hours so this was forming a habit. I couldn’t get her to go to sleep and in the end just went through cry it out. It took 3 nights. Shorter each time. I felt terribly guilty especially as it was thought harmful at the time.

Opinion has now shifted. There is no evidence that cry it out is harmful. https://huckleberrycare.com/blog/cry-it-out-method-aka-extinction-method-is-it-right-for-your-baby So yes, if this is what you want to do, please don’t think you’re harming your baby.

@Mummyoflittledragon
That really doesn't chime with my experience at all unfortunately. My DS has a very obvious underlying illness in which eating the wrong food causes him all sorts of physical/emotional symptoms. If I had left him to cry it out, he would have been in real trouble.

My own conclusion has been that only the mother/parent/carer can really judge what is going on with the child because (s)he is right there on the spot. I think that generalisations by "experts" who do not have eyes on your own situation can really cause a lot of harm.

I think this is one where "know your own child" is the rule that matters. I kind of suspect that the OP knows what she needs to do and just needs a chat to get her ginger up to do it, so to speak.

In my situation, the opposite was the answer, and I knew my own child and also did what I had to do.