To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

I've read the thread thanks and nope my opinions remain. No mic drop for you.

4 year olds on here not sleeping? Maybe they should stop doom scrolling and get to bed 😉

Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, but it's a lie and won't help her feel better.

Life shortening? It’s a short period of your life, even if 5yrs they grow out of it eventually. Wait until you all hit peri, then the dream of long lie in’s when they are teens is replaced with being content you got 5hrs interrupted sleep.

Ah here are all the people who made me feel so terrible about myself who don't understand not all babies (or mums) like co-sleeping

Welcome to the thread

At some point children need to be able to soothe themselves.

My niece didn't sleep for the first year of her life unless she was on someone. That meant that my brother and sister in law had to take it in turns to sit up with her in between feeds because obviously that's not safe sleep in any way. She was premature and spent a chunk of time in the NICU, so maybe that was why.

It got to the point where at 15 months she was still doing that. They tried the gentle transition, letting her fall asleep on them and then putting her in her cot, she would wake up the second they put her down and scream.

Neither of them had had a full nights sleep in 15 months (plus longer for my SIL who had obviously been pregnant and sleeping badly then!) so they did CIO.

It took three nights, and then she slept through. My niece is now 7 and has no emotional problems, no attachment problems, she's the happiest little girl and loves her parents. It had to be done.

I did controlled crying with my oldest. I actually did it by accident as I had got to the point of complete desp6snd exhaustion. My exhaustion, that is. I just sat on the stairs one night because he just wouldn't settle. My DH was at work, I thought I would just sit and compose myself for 5 minutes before going back. Baby was howling, and then I realized no noise. Went back and, he was fast asleep, smile on face. He slept through the night, and carried on doing so.
OP, if you have got to the point of exhaustion you need to try something. If you want to leave the baby to cry you don't need permission. If it works then it's done the job. Co sleeping isn't a magic bullet, it doesn't work for everyone. It can lead to no one sleeping. Not sleeping is torture, literally.

OP, I'm sure you've been on mumset/generally in online parenting spaces long enough to know how this thread will go. You just have to make the choice that's right for your child and yourself and that will look slightly different for every family.

I never did CIO but both my kids were sleeping through consistently by 16 months and 10 months respectively. With the one who slept through at 10 months I absolutely got lucky. If everyone's sleep was still massively disturbed well into the 2nd year I might well have sleep trained them.

I did feed my DC purees instead of BLW, I did use toddler reins, and I did give them a bottle of formula in the evenings from 3 months old even though I physically could have EBF. 🤷‍♀️ most people are just trying their best.

Why is it assumed that babies /young children only affected if they are "abandoned" at night ?

If a mother is so totally exhausted in the day , for YEARS and , due to that , her children miss out on countless daytime experiences / have an (understandably) agitated parent that's "better" than a few nights if CIO ???

@notarisingfan sleep train. You are exhausted

I'm a maternity nurse and have been working with newborns for over 30yrs

I rarely need to sleep train a child that I have been with from a few days as I put them into a gentle routine and promote good sleeping habits from early on

But I have had to go into a lot of families and help sleep train older babies/toddlers as their parents are on feet exhausted and whole family is suffering

Been on mn for almost 20yrs

On mn there are camps of -

omg. I could never leave my baby to cry. You are cruel

V

A few nights of sleep training worked
And my child is much happier as getting the amount of sleep they need

Some babies get more worked up with the go back and reassure and double

1 2 4 8 15 30 method which is usually an hour of sleep training

Lack of sleep is effecting your child and you so something needs to be done

I completely agree. My kids are now secondary age and the people who never sorted out sleep with their kids now have the pre- teens who go to bed really late and always look too tired, and their parents have convinced themselves 'they just dont need as much sleep'!!
I had exactly the same - me going in simply reset the clock and the crying and unsettled lack of sleep was prolonged.
Often they arent crying because they want a parent they are crying because they are shattered and just need to be asleep (we all know how horrendous it feels to not be asleep when exhausted!) and the kindest thing is whatever gets them asleep quickest which sometimes is letting them fuss for 5min!

Interesting!

This reminds me of my coworker‘s dog. Gets a bit bored when coworker is gone (let’s say to the loo, cellar etc) so he visits l my office.

He unfortunately gets anxious when the door rings and his person isn’t next to him. Me simply continuing my work (as in typing, reading, phone calls) calms him down quickly. Trying to soothe him, speak to him etc? No chance.

Me changing my behaviour seems to reinforce the message of „something is different! Something is wrong“ whereas simply ignoring him allows him to calm down.

and yes, I am aware that rescue dogs aren’t the same as toddlers. But the methods seem to be remarkably similar 😅

This is a polarising topic but I think the folk who argue against crying-it-out don’t factor in that a child is going to spend more hours hysterically crying if you don’t go through the 1-3 days of cio. If you’re up every night with a baby who howls for 2-3 hours whether you’re there or not, and who gets wound up by being picked up and put down then cio is kinder than the alternative.

OP in two or three nights you could have this sorted out. There’ll be all sorts of blogs on ‘gentle’ techniques which involve you getting no sleep for the next year. If the best thing for the pair of you is to go for it you just have to do that.

Generally I don’t think MN is anti sleep training: some are of course but on the whole no. Cio is contentious.

I keep thinking poor sleep is teething but increasingly I think it is a habit.

Dear God
How do you think paren't coped before this completely society-destroying approach to parenthood was introduced?
Do you not think they are quite capable of using crying and faux attachement to manipulate parent behaviour? Of course they can.
Once you've eleminated pain, hunger, nappy issues, the rest is just non-tiredness
Let it cry for progressively longer periods before you come back into the room
Or make a big rod for your own back

I agree that you get so anxious about sleep that you end up with bad habits which makes the cycle worse. I was completely against any sort of sleep training and coslept with my eldest and at 18m he still woke and wanted fed every 39 minutes. I was doing waking at 5, feeding him then doing a 12 hour shift then feeding him to sleep then waking at least 4 times during the night and I was pretty broken. The hardest part was getting him to sleep where we had to lie in a dark room silent and still for at least an hour and inevitably fell asleep with him. One night my DH had enough on his turn and said goodnight and said he was going to get something and shut the door. 5 minutes later he came back and he was sound asleep, we had been making all these conditions to get him to sleep that actually were probably keeping him up.

You can be sure that we did things very different with our youngest!

Both are now in school and excellent sleepers and happy little boys. They are certainly not keeping tabs on who was an attachment baby and who was a routine baby.

I can't edit post, but also meant to say that with my youngest he went into his cot, wide awake. So he knew his cot was safe. And he was in his cot from birth, not a crib or Moses basket. Not sure if that helped, but he always slept.

I’m glad she isn’t a paediatrician because none of that really makes any sense? Babies literally need reassurance, they aren’t adults. You letting a 2 week old cry for a bit wouldn’t have done anything to make her self settle in the future.

It made sense to me.

It’s a bit like the scared of the dark thing or monsters … I’ve seen elaborate things suggested to help a child stop being scared but a lot of that feeds the idea there is something to be scared of.

How true it is I don’t know; I’m not an expert. And a child’s needs should always be met. But there does come a point with sleep where your comfort and intervention is keeping your child awake.

This. Some children will respond fine to Ferber or your support while staying in the room. Some will just get frustrated and cry much more.

As others have said, there's no evidence that CIO is damaging. What probably is damaging is not getting enough sleep, and mum (or dad for that matter) not getting enough sleep is damaging to the whole family.

And in the meantime the poor little one could be left sleep deprived for years? Sleep is crucial for development. As a parent it’s your job to teach this vital life skill.

OP We did sleep training at 5 months. It took 3 days, DS has slept through the night ever since and he’s now 3. We immediately became much better parents for it and he has absolutely thrived. He’s ahead in his age group in all areas. Probably because he’s not exhausted all the time! Feel so so sorry for kids still waking up in the night age 2 because their parents aren’t strong enough to do their actual job and have a tough week for their child’s benefit!

It can be kinder yes. I did gradual retreat and that worked - and by worked I mean I had a child who would let me sit next to patting until he went to sleep, then sit next to, then slowly move chair back in room a little more each night - until I was outside the room, then not visible - and he wasn't crying

If you can't not be 'holding' for them to go to sleep, and you being in the room is making them upset then yes - I think it's kinder to do CIO. I have a relative who tried absolutely everything and was having to hold to sleep then if they accidentally woke child when laying so carefully down, or tiptoeing out of the room etc they were starting all over and it could take half hour etc - and the only thing they could do was CIO. Within 2 days they had a child self settling and getting a full nights sleep which was better for all

I'm the only one in my mum group to do it and guess what, 4 years later I sleep beautifully and they don't. One still sleeps by child's bed for 2 hours. My kids are happy. Mine were going to bed awake and letting me leave then by age 1. It took 1 harrowing night and then 2 nights of tired cries lasting no more than 20 min. I am smug because I had guts yo teach my child how to go to sleep.

I totally get where you’re coming from - I’m on my second baby who also doesn’t magically settle in my mere presence. I persevered with my first with staying in the room but not picking up etc. It was still cry it out because she still cried and cried with me there!

I wonder what might be more psychologically damaging for those who believe CIO will cause untold problems: not going in at all, or going in and actively ignoring the child’s obvious desire to be picked up?

Anyway, there’s a reason there are so many sleep training methods. No baby is the same and only you truly know yours. Do what you need to do, with the confidence that only you know your baby’s needs.

How would sleeping in the same room be? I had a temporary bed in my DD’s room for a long while. If she got upset in the night I would comfort her, not pick her up and go into the bed in her room

This. I know a few gentle parents who now have extremely anxious emotionally based school avoiders who don't seem able to cope with life. They want to just be at home with mum, all the time.
Certainly not the confident, securely bonded young people that were promised.
Whereas friends (and myself!) who did cry it out have happy well adjusted kids who are very close to parents but also growing in confidence and independence, who get plenty of sleep so are generally in a good mood.