To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

[MargaretBrewer]

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

Someone whose great- grandparents were working class, from mining stock no less, will become the next Queen of England!

Really? He kept that quiet. 😄

People do change, my cousin went to school and University and had very middle class friends and her accent changed naturally. She's a terrible actress so I'm sure of that. She also worked very hard and now has a lot of money, if you met her you wouldn't know she didn't always and why should you. No one needs to give their life history, they just are who they are. Honestly time we got rid of thinking in classes really anyway. I don't think about it at all and my children are generally unaware there even could be such a thing.

Someone been reading Dave Nellist or Scargill?

There is nothing more tedious, though, than a middle class person banging on about their "working class roots" (looking at you, Keir!). So that's why people don't mention it - nobody cares (well, except the OP, it seems).

I also hate the class stereotypes especially in relation to Angela Rayner. Lots of working class women are introverted and bookish and don't have an accent. We're not all doing sing songs down the pub and dancing in Magaluf.

How very dare a construction worker make something of himself !
You can't possibly be for real.

It doesn't bother me how much money someone has. Some people do very well, and good for them. You can be working class, and be absolutely loaded. You can also be upper class, yet you haven't a penny to your name. It's not the money that's the issue, it's how quick some people are to conceal where they really came from. As though it's shameful.

What annoys me is how people flaunt or express status. As though one class is better than another.

They are just living their lives according to their tastes and finances like everyone else. How you label them is none of their concern.

I come across as posh and have a posh accent my family think is funny. My dad came from a council estate and all my grandparents had manual jobs. I am not ashamed of this and will happily chat about it to anyone if the subject comes up.

I’m not hiding anything and how other people perceive me is not my business.

And we've all heard about what that dreadful Winifred Ellerman and Nancy Cunard got up to in their spare time. Shipping magnates and their wayward daughters! These new money types sure had ideas above their station.

Landed gentry is where the class is at, dahling! Even if all you own is a crumbling, derelict property and otherwise don't have a bean.

(Scratching my head as to the logic of this one. I have to confess I've drawn something of a blank) 🕵

You sound quite bitter 🤷🏻‍♀️

my mum was born in the 40s. I’d assume her parents were working class. Grandma was a secretary, grandad owned a grocery shop but “did well”. So my mum and sister went to uni and became teachers.

Saying that my grandparents always spoke very well (proper RP), lived in nice houses and had expensive cars by the time I was born. So an acquaintance might have made assumptions about their background.

but it’s a massive stereotype to say your friend has middle class values/actions. How do you think all working class people should behave? Should they be scrapping in their council house gardens while smoking fags and going to bingo? Anyone is allowed to have any sort of hobbies and interests.

so I don’t understand what your friend has done wrong

This one made me laugh like Muttley.

Our esteemed leader, a tool? Surely not!

I think you needed to change your name because you know you sound like an ungracious snob.

I hope you've had your arsenal handed to you on this thread

a few handy tips:
wear gloves. then if any commoners masquerading as middle class fool you into shaking hands, at least you've got a layer of protection.
A ballgown with bustle and barbed wire outer layer can also keep the dirty beggars at bay.
Before inviting anyone over, get an experian credit check done on them and their parents.
Ask them where they buy furniture. If the answer isn't "Buy? I just bring a few heirlooms from my country estate"...
if in doubt, full hazmat protection is advised.

That's right op, you get it out there, they're all fur coat and no knickers. 🙄

Or you could just get over it?

@saveforthat by definition, with the help of his mother.

I've got plenty of friends from backgrounds they would describe as working class. They speak the same as I do, enjoy similar pursuits, types of holiday etc. That does not make them "liars and actors". Do you think everyone working class should sound like a cockney or like they've just emerged from a tin mine? Some very odd snobbery in the OP.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about the English class system. But, I did have to explain its subtext to an American friend who just did not get it.

what an utterly bizarre question. Of course it can! And no, it's not acting.

My parents were both distinctly working class raised in the arse end of birmingham, in fact my grandfather was in one of the gangs peaky blinders is based on (yes, really) and both parents were drug up in the gutters.

My dad ended up falling into an excellent career, rose up through and was working with some VERY MC clients, so adapted his manners and speech to not seem rude/common with them.

Then mom and dad had us, and we were raised middle class, as suited his income, where we lived by that point, and the had the education available to us. my brother earns money my parents could only dream of.

Both my brother and are are 'middle class' because of it, but we came from working class parents who did good. Does that make us actors or just the result of the environment in which we were raised?

💩
Quite.

I'm an immigrant so slightly immune to the class signifier obsession, but it's worth noting that lots of people's accents change massively over their lifetimes. My own Is unrecognisable from when I moved here 20 years ago.

I know people who have consciously modified their accents to improve their employment prospects - and how shit that they felt they had to do it - but others who are more sponge like with accents and their accents change over time.

It's not exactly unusual.

(Also need to take issue with those saying that the middle class is an invention of the Industrial Revolution - the term came about around then but the concept and the demographic in England has much deeper post-feudal roots - one reason for Britain's success as a pre-industrial trading power was the strength (and to a degree openness of) its merchant class.)

Does it matter that they come from humble backgrounds? Why concern yourself with this?

You will have to read between the lines here folks. The poster has a very valid opinion as she is trying to discuss class issues that are inherent in all communities. Issues of class has become intertwined into human psychology during the various decades. The comments about Jane Austin & novels from the past show people have understood how what the OP has commented on actually links to history as well. If you delve deeper , and understand class issues throu the decades you can see that many societies have what the OP is discussing lol ! The Brits are masters of it due to us having a monarchy and democracy hand in hand. The Europeans , Africans , Asains , Chinese , Arabs , Caribbeans , Americans and even the soviet and eastern Europeans have this going on ! As long as society holds wealth & monetary matters higher over actual goodness & morals- people will always use different "classes " as a yardstick . I don't believe in the concept of class being the " be all and end all" but i understand how it came about ( human nature & historically trying to put labels on people as a form of identification. Human beings have an inclination towards "one upmanship " and so you will find all " classes " want to move and rise up as a form of better- ment on their own terms. Some folks will act up and some will act down - some folks will stay in their lane / class and some will try to break out of class classifications and try to move to a society where it does not exist.... let's see what the future holds lol !

I was just about to raise this point. What about Catherine's speaking voice, is she acting?

Jealous much

I literally don’t understand how their parents working as builders, or not working, means the couple you are referring to are ‘lying’ when they’ve made some money for themselves?!

What an odd thread