Son & DILs Parenting - concerned?

[Elisoe]

I'm going to start with, I haven't mentioned this to anyone and I won't unless others think I should. I know it's not abusive but it does worry me.
My youngest son has 2 children, girls who are 5 and 3. Their mum isn't British (she is Russian), there is a big age gap but they seem happy. I have grandchildren from my older son too and learnt quite quickly to just say nothing unless it's actually harmful but I have concerns and I'm not sure if they justify being mentioned
The first concern is diet, DIL is very skinny, she doesn't even workout a lot but she is strict with her diet and is very minimal on carbs. Obviously this goes to the children too and they are both skinny children but taller than average. Most days from what I can tell the children also have no carbs. The eldest is now in school but gets a pack lunch and if there are any carbs it's the keto friendly low carb version. DIL is quite addictive about things being low carb but she does give a lot of protein so maybe it's a non issue. I've never known children to be on restricted diets unless necessary though so I do worry about this. They are also very strict on snacks with designated snack times and if it's not snack time and you're hungry well tough!
The second concern is the expectations, the 3 year old currently does swimming lessons 2x a week, ballet 2x a week (though this is mostly just running around with ribbons admittedly!) and a tennis session. Plus a Russian language Saturday morning pre-school and 3 actual mornings at nursery. Whenever I see her she is exhausted! The eldest does similar but seems better able to handle it.
Next is the strictness, the children are hardly allowed to step out of line without being sternly told off, this can be for laughing too loud or having more than one toy out at a time! They are some of the best behaved children I've ever met but I don't know if I support just how strict they are?
Lastly is the girls absolutely aren't allowed to do anything their mum seems to be for boys, football, getting muddy (they wear dresses most days!), play with trucks etc. I bought them some toy cars after going to a playgroup with them and them enjoying the cars but found out a few weeks later from my son that they have them to a friend with boys as they aren't girls toys!

AIBU to think this is all quite extreme? I know
It's both my son and DIL making these choices but at times it feels like a lot. Is any of this worth actually being concerned about or just a different parenting style?

Honestly if they’re that rigid you really need to say nothing if you want to maintain a relationship with your son and gc.

there is a long running thread on here where the mum is dropped as nc for the slightest misdemeanour and the family are now living in rural Ireland. It seems your family have very strong views and I don’t think questioning them will have any impact on the way they do things but will have a massive impact on their relationship with you.

I would be concerned too, but I would be wary of being cut off from the children if I fell out with DIL.
Concentrate on maintaining a relationship with the children.
Can you direct your son to some information on nutrition and parenting?
I guess the worry is that the food aspect could become a safeguarding issue, in which case I would hope the school would notice.

Their diet sounds great - other kids/adults constantly chomping on carbs is wrecking our nation's health (and health service).
The strict upbringing is also ok, as you say they are well behaved, it pays dividends.
I'd have issues with the girls not being allowed to play whatever games they want - unfortunately they may later rebel against this and ruin all the previous good parenting.

I wouldn’t worry about the classes, plenty of 3 year olds are in full time nursery. Learning Russian is great and as long as she’s enjoying the rest it’s fine.

Food I think they key is whether the discussion about food is healthy or setting them up for relationship with food issues. I don’t think low carb is bad in and of itself (I’m impressed she has the energy to do a low carb diet for kids, I would run out of ideas!)

Hard to tell on the discipline - again people have different boundaries and views. They get to set their own lines as long as it’s not abusive.

Toy car stuff is bullshit and ridiculous but also - sadly - not at all uncommon.

Are you all mental? A three and five year old on a low-carb diet? It’s not right. They need carbs. Especially if doing that much exercise!

Is there an opportunity where you could gently speak to your son alone? What do other people in the family think? If they are underweight it must have been noticed by others as well.

Sounds like a Victorian upbringing to me.

The lack of carbs would bother me.
Children need carbs and not having enough will explain why the dc are thin and tired.

Carbs are not wreaking the health service, it's sugar!

I would be concerned as well. Though not sure I'd say anything. Keep being a safe space for the children. As they grow, and become more independent they will 100% resent their upbringing.

Sorry, to be clear I wouldn’t like the carb thing at all, but I don’t think there is anything you can do about it. As long as the diet is otherwise balanced and there are some carbs, nobody is going to do anything about it, and raising it will just cause trouble. However, if the language around food is also unhealthy I think that is an even bigger issue.

Thank you, I also find the food to be the most concerning. I don't think the children are underweight (both parents are tall and skinny so genetically they are likely to be the same) but they are thin.
It's hard to explain the diet as it's not no carb or keto it's just heavily fruit/veg/protein with little carbs. They have a roast every Sunday (my son insists on this) and obviously that is quite carb heavy but a normal day of meals is more like, scrambled eggs/fruit for breakfast, fruit/veg snack, lunch with the low carb tortilla wraps or similar, fruit/veg snack then meals like stuffed bell peppers or fish with steam veg. The fruit and veg do bring some carbs but they really don't have pasta/bread/potatoes often at all!

I've mentioned before about having not heard of kids needing that before and my son just dismisses saying they are healthy.

Honestly British parenting seems very lax in comparison to many cultures.

Different cultures have much higher expectations of their kids both in terms of behavior and educational outcomes.

I'd advise saying nothing and I think you'll be pretty impressed by the outcomes.

She's Russian. Its a harsh place to live. I think a lot of what you are seeing is about cultural differences. I would find what you describe difficult to watch but the best you can do is work on keeping a warm and supportive relationship with them all.

And the food you've described sound natural and healthy.

Their diet sounds perfect. Children should be skinny. There are too many fat kids stuffing themselves with sugar.
The gender specific games, toys would either me but in school that will change.
Say nothing. Don't criticise.

Fruit is generally carbs though because of sugar content. The only issue that worries me is the gender stereotyping but I expect that the girls will sort that out for themselves when they get to school. You have already seen them play differently when not at home. I would guess they will rebel against this when older.

I think it sounds very different from the British emphasis on "whatever makes you happy" but not remotely abusive. The girls will probably grow up to be disciplined, high achieving women. Pretty normal in much of the world.

Their diet sounds good and your dil and son sound like they are doing a strict but well considered job of parenting. Look at all the chubby kids waddling around nowadays and anything that doesn't match that can look extreme in the opposite direction. Unless they are actually unhealthily skinny are they not just lean? I'd keep schtum and if you have any issue then discreetly mention it to your son but definitely not to dil. Also, the underlying tone you have about your dil is quite negative and comes across as resentful, maybe work on that and look at the positives of what dil is doing for her family than pulling it to pieces.

Carbs are sugar.

I think it depends, the problem with highly restrictive diets enforced on you is food issues later. It’s one thing to have a normal way to eat at home but be quite relaxed about what they eat elsewhere but if it’s constant monitoring thats dysfunctional imo. However I don’t think the diet sounds that bad, it does sound quite healthy. DD’s been known to eat a plate of chicken without touching a carb quite happily. Dh and I try to control our carbs a bit but DD is given free reign, we choose what she eats, she chooses how much (exception being cake, chocolate etc). If they are restricting amount I think thats quite damaging.

Girls should be able to get muddy and shouldn’t be told off for being a bit loud or having toys out. Mine was obsessed with diggers so my Dh got her a few. I would not feel comfortable with that at all, but eventually they will develop their own interest regardless of what their mum thinks.

On the extra curriculars at 3 mine had a similar number of activities plus half days at pre-school, 3yr olds are full of energy and it was fine.

Honestly I wouldn’t say anything, she doesn’t sound like a relaxed woman and she’ll have her own battles with her daughters as they get older. I would just be there for a cuddle and support. She’s not abusive unless they are hungry and she’s not allowing them to eat. She may have very exacting standards and expectations and thats not uncommon if you come from that environment. She may actually think she’s a more relaxed parent than her own.

However valid your concerns op, what do you think the outcome of you saying anything would be? I imagine that nothing at all would change, except for damaging your relationship with your son and DIL.

If you want to do or say anything don’t criticise, be curious. Ask your dil about growing up in Russia. Ask about the way she was parented. Build trust. She may get curious with you and you can tell her how different it is here. She may not have noticed yet as the girls are still very little. The important thing is not to criticise and just make it about how things are different.

As for the carbs, I agree it’s very restrictive. But the girls are growing so I wouldn’t say anything for now. Are they allowed Easter eggs and chocolate on special occasions etc?

From one grandmother to another….

keep quiet!

its a cultural difference and as long as the kids are happy and healthy that’s all that matters.

They do get treats not just at Easter, normally Fridays they get a sweetie after dinner and on Saturdays they either all eat out or order in so that's less restrictive and Sunday is roast so definitely less restrictive then.
They get Easter eggs and birthday cake etc.

So four days a week they have less carbs? I don't see the issue.

It's different to hiw you raised your children but not necessarily bad.

I would focus on maintaining a good relationship with you dil and ds so you can spend time with kids and give your influence. Do you babysit ? Could you offer to?

I’d be worried about the food issue too. Carbs are not the enemy and children in particular need carbs. They should be having cereal/toast, sandwiches (proper bread), potatoes, rice, pasta, etc. It sounds like your DIL has major food issues and insecurities too.

You’ll have to tread very carefully indeed but could you speak to your son alone and tentatively have a chat about diet. Avoid mentioning the children but maybe say something like how you’ve changed to a Mediterranean diet after all the evidence about the health benefits, etc (have a read up on it first). Hopefully he’ll take some of that on board and make gradual changes to his own diet and also the children’s.