Son & DILs Parenting - concerned?

[Elisoe]

I'm going to start with, I haven't mentioned this to anyone and I won't unless others think I should. I know it's not abusive but it does worry me.
My youngest son has 2 children, girls who are 5 and 3. Their mum isn't British (she is Russian), there is a big age gap but they seem happy. I have grandchildren from my older son too and learnt quite quickly to just say nothing unless it's actually harmful but I have concerns and I'm not sure if they justify being mentioned
The first concern is diet, DIL is very skinny, she doesn't even workout a lot but she is strict with her diet and is very minimal on carbs. Obviously this goes to the children too and they are both skinny children but taller than average. Most days from what I can tell the children also have no carbs. The eldest is now in school but gets a pack lunch and if there are any carbs it's the keto friendly low carb version. DIL is quite addictive about things being low carb but she does give a lot of protein so maybe it's a non issue. I've never known children to be on restricted diets unless necessary though so I do worry about this. They are also very strict on snacks with designated snack times and if it's not snack time and you're hungry well tough!
The second concern is the expectations, the 3 year old currently does swimming lessons 2x a week, ballet 2x a week (though this is mostly just running around with ribbons admittedly!) and a tennis session. Plus a Russian language Saturday morning pre-school and 3 actual mornings at nursery. Whenever I see her she is exhausted! The eldest does similar but seems better able to handle it.
Next is the strictness, the children are hardly allowed to step out of line without being sternly told off, this can be for laughing too loud or having more than one toy out at a time! They are some of the best behaved children I've ever met but I don't know if I support just how strict they are?
Lastly is the girls absolutely aren't allowed to do anything their mum seems to be for boys, football, getting muddy (they wear dresses most days!), play with trucks etc. I bought them some toy cars after going to a playgroup with them and them enjoying the cars but found out a few weeks later from my son that they have them to a friend with boys as they aren't girls toys!

AIBU to think this is all quite extreme? I know
It's both my son and DIL making these choices but at times it feels like a lot. Is any of this worth actually being concerned about or just a different parenting style?

Well the OP says she's Russian in first post so why would I go out hunting old posts of hers

Read what I said instead of being so dismissive. The girls are 3 and 5. The ribcage article is a single opinion piece, albeit from a self proclaimed expert, not a referenced scientific study. It is from 2011 and talks about a 10 year old's rib cage. It is irrelevant. We are discussing children much younger. It really concerns me you are so obsessed with children and rib cages. It's weird.

And for what it's worth, yes you can see my 10 year old's rib cage...

I wasn’t getting at you. I’m just saying there is another post from a couple of days ago which has hundreds of comments on it and this is quite obviously the same woman. Frankly, she’s awful and I’m surprised the son has any contact with her at all. I’m sure the poor dil would also be delighted to know that her mil is now calling her Russian in order to get some more sympathetic responses too!

It doesn't sound great having carbs restricted so much and the sexism relating to toys.

But they aren't your children and it's not abusive. They can raise their children like this if they want so you should continue to say nothing.

At least their kids are well behaved and are not filling up on fizz and junk which is even worse.

I'd share your concerns with the school ,and ask for it to remain anonymous
That way school can check lunch boxes and make sure one meal is adequate.

The only thing for me would be the "not for girls toys" but having Russian relatives, I think that's a very common attitude. Plus I was raised with similar and managed to rebel.

My kids did a similar amount of activities at that age and were absolutely fine. My youngest started ballet at 2. Strenuous it was not! We don't allow snacks a lot of the time outside fruit. We don't have a massive amount of carbs at home and I struggle with my Irish MiL and her mounds of potatoes and bread with every meal. I expect my children to behave in public.

Also at 5, my eldest had spent 1 night away from me (when I was in hospital having his sister) and by the time she was 5, dc2 had never stayed away from me. By 6, they both happily started camping at Beavers.

You obviously don't like her but when you marry someone from a different culture, there is always going to be these differences.

This. I have foreign relatives and the way they are raising their kids is totally different to Brits but the kids are amazingly polite, kind, talented, healthy and driven. They are a credit to the parents.

I would say nothing. I'm sure they will be OK and if they rebel when they are old enough to leave home, so be it.

The food they are eating sounds better than some children will be eating (chicken nuggets,chips,sweets,crisps ect) and not unhealthy - and at that age the clubs they are going to are probably more relaxed social/fun.

If their mum is from a different culture she may be going to more clubs to be able to meet other mums similar to her.

Sounds like they have well behaved children that are happy to eat healthy food, which they are probably proud of and I don't imagine it will go down well if you suggest they should change their diet and be less strict. It also sounds like they have a tidy organised house without toys everywhere so that may feed into why they didn't keep the cars you gave (and I don't think you get along with the mum - I think parents find it easier to dispose of gifts given form someone who doesn't like them).

I wouldn't worry about the parenting it sounds like they are far from being neglected or abused - just differently to how you would parent. If you want to be close to your grandchildren it would probably be better to try and get along with their mum well instead of worrying about her parenting - the closer you are with their parents the closer you will be to them growing up and the more influence you will naturally have on there upbringing.

It sounds fine. The kids aren't eating no carbs - they are eating tortilla wraps and a roast on Sundays. Their diet actually sounds really healthy. In Ukraine, it's normal to have a big breakfast and smaller lunches and dinners, and their way of eating is much healthier than ours tbh.

The parents sound strict but they're clearly not abusive, so I'd keep my beak well out of it if I wanted to have a good relationship with both them and the GC.

The amount of activities isn’t nuts at all though,

The vast majority of mums who stay home at least most of the with their children will tell you they usually plan a daily activity to structure the day and get out of the house. Ballet or swimming lessons is no worse than a stay and play or a rhyme time class.

It’s totally normal.

OP is the one whose language on the food seems to be more damaging. She acts like they are forbidden to eat when they have sweets on Friday, a takeaway or meal out on Saturday and a family roast on Sunday.

I don't think saying anything will get you anywhere but less contact with the children. I would concentrate on spending as much time with the children as possible and making your home a fun grandparents home with fun, toys, crafts, messy play and carbs!!

In my opinion it is relevant. The article is the first UK reliable source on google.

Rib cage is an easy reference for parents to gauge. It is used in a lot of HSE references in Ireland.

Now are you going to apologise for your continued rudeness and inappropriate comment?or shall I just report your posts for personal comments not inline with the talk guidelines?

You may benefit from some of the values the OP Dil is instilling in her children.

Phone the school to report what?? That her grandchildren eat filled tortilla wraps alongside fruit and veg for lunch and granny dearest has an issue with that?

I imagine the son and DIL will go from low to no contact in that case.

Sounds like how we were raised and now 4 confident adults, never out of work, never in trouble, successful marriages etc. As kids, respectful of others, no tantrums, ate what we were given, tidied toys away before lunch, dinner, bedtime. Had great fun with each other and our imagination. Perfect upbringing!

The cynical me would say she is raising them for success in Russian marriage market.
According to my Russian friends, the population of young men in Russia is decimated by alcohol and chemical drugs (even before the current war), because many of them feel total lost of hope. Young women are in better shape, because they do have hope - hope of marrying someone and getting out. But only the best ones will succeed, and it means looking great, being educated, well behaved and ladylike.

Less cynically said, she is raising them in a way which would be seen as posh. She can afford to feed her children protein and veg instead of stuffing them with bread.

Rightly or wrongly, she might feel that as half Russians they have to operate on higher standards than usual. Or, she might be just mimicking and replicating "good upbringing" without thinking about the situation.

I'd say start with recognising the work she puts into it, be supportive and be a gateway to British culture.
She might not believe you at first, because it is hard to realise how different the everyday culture can be.
Enid Blyton and Arthur Ransome will be your friends.

How do you know exactly what they are eating and doing when you aren't seeing them day in, day out?
The strict thing and gender specific toys sounds cultural. My dc had Eastern European and Asian friends who's parents demanded high achievement in school and high standards of behaviour.
The extra curricular activities sound reasonably normal, especially in Middle Class families. My Dc in primary school were doing swimming lessons (which is a life skill), Beavers or Brownies (life skills)and music. Language classes were very normal also in children who had a foreign parent. Add to this a kid who is showing potential in football, dance, martial arts and you've got a pretty full schedule.
It's fine to be concerned, but be careful that you aren't overstepping. A difference in opinion in the way she is raising your gc doesn't mean abuse.

Other than the gendered stuff, don’t see a problem.

You remind me of my mum actually except for the gendered stuff where she wouldn’t buy cars for our daughter unless she was specifically asked by her and assumes I’m too lenient because my children aren’t completely obedient to us. She thinks our children are too skinny because she sees their bones and muscles under their skin and thinks I’m harsh on their snack intake. She says because they are skinny I should allow them to have more treats to fatten them up a little bit and it won’t harm them because DH and I are both slim so genetically they should be fine while in the same breath will say my slimness is down to luck since she, dad, and my sister are overweight.

They just parent different than you and you have to leave them to it. The children sound healthy and happy, despite your “concerns” which sound more like you just want them to be parented the way you think they should be because it’s not of your culture.

Fair enough. I'm not sure why her daughter in law being Russian would evoke more sympathy though

The school won't just secretly start checking lunch boxes on an anonymous tip from a stranger.

They would tell the parents that they had a report, and they would have to follow the safeguarding procedures for that report.

It wouldn't take a genius to figure out who did it.

Besides which, there's bugger all to report, they aren't being given cans of monster and a crack pipe, it's fruit.

It is also pertinent for young children such as 3 and 5. We have just be conditioned to think that it means skinny, as a society we are obsessed with big children. The healthy range for bmi starts at the 3rd centile. So you’re correct, it’s called normal slenderness.

Regarding nationality, she may be a Ukrainian citizen of Russian origin, so potentially, the OP's statement is not entirely untrue.

I think perhaps because British people might have more sympathy at the moment for Ukrainians than Russians in general. Also, I suspect, so she could avoid being recognised from the other thread and be vindicated for some of her ‘concerns’ rather than told in no uncertain terms that she is entirely unreasonable. People on this thread might not have heard the backstory behind some of these points (like the birthday present cars that she spent hundreds of pounds on so they must have been the ones the children can actually get into - I suspect the parents didn’t want them - 2 months late btw - because they live in a tiny flat)!

it just sounds like a Slavic upbringing. Culture shock to you, but normal for DIL

Hi @Elisoe.

I have a neighbour who raised her child like this. She is not Russian but from a neighbouring country.

After about the age of 8, her son largely lived at our house. It sort of turned into a dynamic where he came to us to feel relaxed. I think actually my DH had a similar upbringing where he often went to a friend's house to be relaxed.

It's possible that your GCs will get a lot of good stuff from outside of the immediate family.

The best thing might be to make sure that your door is always open and be very good to your DIL so she trusts you to be a second home for them.

Honestly, I’m a bit jealous of her - that reads as a lovely healthy diet and I wish I had the energy for it and to not cave to the endless snack demands.

The clubs and Russian lessons all sound brilliant too.

I’d raise an eyebrow at them not being allowed to play with anything girly, but not enough to actually say anything.