I feel like the 'poor one' compared to DH

[likespiano]

I actually know I’m being unreasonable and I’m trying to figure out why! We’re really lucky, financially, so I don’t know why I’m always scrimping and saving, counting the pennies, while DH buys anything he wants. It’s really jarring.

I’m from UK but live in Italy with DH (in his home town) and our two DC. DD is 10 and NT. DS is 7 and ND. DH works full time, employed, 24 000 euros a year (including tax relief because of DS). I teach, 10 hours a week, self employed, about 10 000 euros a year (6 500 euros after tax). My in-laws live round the corner and do a lot of childcare. They also gave us our house, so we have no rent or mortgage. I know how lucky I am. But seeing as I’m so lucky, why am I so broke and why isn’t DH?

I think our expenses are quite well organised, he pays all the larger bills (food, utilities, car maintenance and insurance) and I pay the smaller ones (internet, water, rubbish) and of course my personal expenses (phone, 150 euros a month into a private pension, my accountant which is 700 euros a year). Obviously any new clothes, coffee, yoga etc on top of that. Kids’ stuff since I’m with them most of the time. I’ve always managed.

Recently I’ve noticed that DH has been gradually transferring expenses that he used to cover onto me. We changed our second car, the new one is in my name and now I’m paying petrol. I know that’s fair, since I use it for work, but I didn’t use to pay petrol as I used his second car, and he filled them both up. We never explicitly agreed it, it just happened. Also, holidays. I paid for an extra holiday this summer because he didn’t come, he doesn’t like the beach. I suggested that in future I and DC go with my mother instead of him. He agreed, and he’ll cover DCs expenses, but that’s not the same as paying for the whole thing, which he did until now. Last month we agreed I was having difficulty, and now he refunds me anything I spend on DC. It’s hard to tell how much it’ll help as it’s so new. But last month, he paid late, rounded down, complained. I minimised, didn’t include everything I’d spent on them, felt guilty.

Money-saving initiatives generally seem to backfire. For example, I suggested we get a second-hand bike for DS, to save money. DH looked online and decided he wanted a BMX bike for himself, so he ended up buying that instead. Then we got DS a new bike anyway. DH used to play the drums, but sold them as he didn’t use them anymore. Then he missed it, so he rented a small hall with a drumkit for a couple of years. We went shopping for new shoes for DC and DH found a pair of trainers at 110 euros, for him. It was actually a relief – if he felt he could afford those, surely we aren’t as broke as he says? He also has a very expensive hobby, riding his motorbike. He always says I can ask him for anything and not to worry about money, but then he complains a lot about bills and how he hardly has any money, so I don’t feel I can. My yoga membership is due next month, but I’m not going to renew it. Me and DH go out for a drink together once a week, I’ve suggested we get a bottle of wine and watch Netflix at home instead. Even tiny things, I drink tap water but he hass bottled. I’d like fizzy water too, but it would only mean more stuff to lug home from the supermarket, so I don’t. I feel so petty and resentful. Can we make things fairer, or are we both just spendthrifts?

That also confuses me, as does the total tax being paid. https://salaryaftertax.com/it/salary-calculator suggests that on an income of 10,000 Euros, the take-home should be almost 7,000 a year or about a month's worth of income extra. If the OP is self-employed presumably that is different, but then expenses such as petrol for work ought to be tax deductible.

I know someone who moved to Italy last year and he has a 5 year tax break - no taxes - he is not an employee. I don't think he employs more than one or 2 people either. He is working in finance independently but had previous experience in UK. (he is very driven), Regarding having an accountant and your taxes - are there not local tax offices you can go to like in France who would advise you how to do the forms to save on those fees? You must be paying less tax than what you give accountant? Could you not just copy what accountant did next year yourself?

Try giving English lessons online and charging a good fee.

Also try asking for a “one pot” approach to family finances. At meals always order what your husband does.

I think you need to sit down and look at all spends. You are very low income family. Very low indeed. And it is not clear if he spends on larger things but is frugal otherwise, where as you spend on lots of little things that add,up.
but you need to sit down and discuss it, no one on here can help you there. He’s your husband, habe the conversation. We can’t do it for you.

You don't have a house , that belongs to your fil

Your husband obviously gets an allowance from his family as you both hardly earn anything

All seems very odd

Your salaries are very low. I can see why yours is low, if you only do 10 hours a week, but why is his so low? What does he do?

Even tiny things, I drink tap water but he hass bottled. I’d like fizzy water too, but it would only mean more stuff to lug home from the supermarket, so I don’t.
This really stood out to me, surely you share the available fizzy water and when its gone he either lugs more home himself or goes without till the next normal shopping date. Most people wouldn't think twice about it. Why is he more deserving of fizzy water than you? Whats stopping you drinking your share? What would happen or what do you fear would happen if you simply drank your share?

You also said he had a very expensive hobby riding motorbikes and that he rents a hall so he can drums. Plus recently bought very expensive shoes a well as the bike. He could have not bought the bike, that would have reduced expenses. If you can't afford expensive hobbies you don't have them. Right now it seems the status quo is he gets what he wants, even down to fizzy water you for some reason can't share, and you go without.

I hate all this "I pay for this bill, he pays for that bill" Just pool your money and pay the bills!

Have an equal "fun money" allowance each and share the rest - you're married with kids ffs, how much more entwined could your costs be?!

I honestly think this is the best way forward. Joint account for all expensive, and then you both get equal spending money from what is left after bills, kids etc.

it may lead to more friction short term-
a long the lines of ‘why did you buy DS such expensive trainers, we can’t afford z’ but gives you better visibility.

you need more conversations and discussions, and also to keep track of what you’re spending on so you know if you can afford it !

And: do NOT, not renew your yoga membership . Please.
cutting your costs without any discussion about overall spending and budgets is not the way forward. He won’t thank you for it, and you will resent it.

"Frustrating" ?
All this talk to help you not feel "frustrated"?
Best of luck with your new course of teaching going forward.
Hopefully you'll catch up, and you and DH and DC will live well within your means.
Never hurts to be vigilant and careful with money, no matter what your means, especially as you know how fickle your man can be when it comes to the bottom line in matters of family finances.
Pool your resources, none of this 'he spends', 'she spends' just pool and divide and enjoy any leftover as a treat until you get paid more.
No one can help you with that, you have to do it yourselves; good luck!

Jakers your accountant takes 10% of your net income. Retrain as an accountant.

I’m a bit puzzled by your work situation - working on a self-employed basis but for a local secondary school. I thought that teaching in Italy was a regulated profession with a national examined qualification that all prospective teachers have to sit in order to work in state schools? But then it gives employed status with pension benefits and longevity of employment. Or is it that you can’t access this status due to not being Italian?

Are you on better or worse terms and conditions than your local colleagues? Is this the best available job for you?

I think italy does have lower wages but even with that, your DH in particular is not earning a lot for full time work. Are you sure he is only earning 24k a year?

Regarding all the comments about low incomes - I’m half Spanish, and the difference in incomes and how far it stretches is notable , between Spain and the UK. What in Spain would get you a comfortable lifestyle, in the UK is considered low. So I wouldn’t worry too much about that in itself. Even things like, in the UK council tax is a bill in itself - say £300 a month- whereas in Spain we pay that much to the town hall for a whole year !
Plus of course don’t have rent or mortgage so the 24,000 euro go that much further.

however! I did notice very much that you seems to have a pattern of just buying what you fancy rather than having a budget and knowing if you can afford it or not.

I don't think the low income is entirely the problem. The problem is that you are not equal. I used to be an SAHM and we cut back at that time, but we had a family pot and we both had equal spending money. I would never consent to my DH buying expensive trainers, bikes and fizzy water while I went without.

Apropos, now our income is healthy and I still wouldn't buy trainers that cost that much. My trainers are all under £50 bought in the sale.

This !!!

The biggest question is really do you purposely not buy the things you want and he goes for it or does he stop you? My mil told me she copped on when the kids were younger because she bought ice creams for everyone excluding herself and she asked for a bit off sil and sil said ‘no, why wouldn’t you just get one yourself?’ and she suddenly realised she always did that, skipped herself when fil wouldn’t even think not to have an ice cream etc. You made an excuse about fizzy water being too heavy but if you really want it that badly surely it makes more sense?!

My son was seeing a woman who'd moved to Puglia to teach English as a foreign language to businesses. What a racket. Her pay and hours were chaotic. Luckily her parents had retired there so she had a roof over her head. The locals dodged tax at every turn. You had to know people to get anything fixed. She gave up in the end going back to the UK

He probably doesn’t even notice the sacrifices you are making eg fizzy water and yoga.

You need a frank conversation and make it known that your needs and wants are just as important as his.

There may be some difference in living costs, but I’m surprised the comments on earning have come as such a shock OP - your husbands salary when converted to £ is under minimum wage for full time in the UK.

In the UK benefits would likely be available on top too.

OP your problem is that you and DH aren’t on the same page financially!

You need to either pay household expenses proportionally to your incomes, or (the preferred choice in my opinion) pool all your income and expenses as you are a family. You need a family budget and you need to discuss all this with your DH.

I know nothing about the cost of living and average wages in Italy so cannot comment on your salary and how far it will go - but if you need more income would you not consider private tutoring in English or Italian? Presumably you speak both well enough to do this and you could do it online too. Your children are at school and you have childcare from your in-laws so you can work more hours.

The ice cream story is exactly me! Other times it's a trade-off. I would quite like fizzy water, but not enough to schlep it home from the supermarket - I drink far more water than DH. Most things are like that, really.

About being precarious - I do save. I work and if I did get made homeless, I would increase my hours and let the quality of my lessons slide - I'd have to. My main goal has always been to maintain a light presence in work, so that I can increase if needed. I was talking to a friend about this and she showed me how to use AI to generate lesson plans, I think decreasing time spent planning is my first step. Then, if needed, increase hours.

I started this thread because I honestly couldn't figure whether I was right to feel broke, or if I was needlessly punishing myself, since DH always offers to help me. I don't agree that we're as poor as PPs are saying - several of DHs colleagues, on similar salaries, are married to SAHMs and they get by.

*The trainers were for DH and he didn't buy them in the end. I said they didn't suit him.

If the ice cream story is you, that's unfair
Either both of you get ice cream or no one gets it!