I feel like the 'poor one' compared to DH

[likespiano]

I actually know I’m being unreasonable and I’m trying to figure out why! We’re really lucky, financially, so I don’t know why I’m always scrimping and saving, counting the pennies, while DH buys anything he wants. It’s really jarring.

I’m from UK but live in Italy with DH (in his home town) and our two DC. DD is 10 and NT. DS is 7 and ND. DH works full time, employed, 24 000 euros a year (including tax relief because of DS). I teach, 10 hours a week, self employed, about 10 000 euros a year (6 500 euros after tax). My in-laws live round the corner and do a lot of childcare. They also gave us our house, so we have no rent or mortgage. I know how lucky I am. But seeing as I’m so lucky, why am I so broke and why isn’t DH?

I think our expenses are quite well organised, he pays all the larger bills (food, utilities, car maintenance and insurance) and I pay the smaller ones (internet, water, rubbish) and of course my personal expenses (phone, 150 euros a month into a private pension, my accountant which is 700 euros a year). Obviously any new clothes, coffee, yoga etc on top of that. Kids’ stuff since I’m with them most of the time. I’ve always managed.

Recently I’ve noticed that DH has been gradually transferring expenses that he used to cover onto me. We changed our second car, the new one is in my name and now I’m paying petrol. I know that’s fair, since I use it for work, but I didn’t use to pay petrol as I used his second car, and he filled them both up. We never explicitly agreed it, it just happened. Also, holidays. I paid for an extra holiday this summer because he didn’t come, he doesn’t like the beach. I suggested that in future I and DC go with my mother instead of him. He agreed, and he’ll cover DCs expenses, but that’s not the same as paying for the whole thing, which he did until now. Last month we agreed I was having difficulty, and now he refunds me anything I spend on DC. It’s hard to tell how much it’ll help as it’s so new. But last month, he paid late, rounded down, complained. I minimised, didn’t include everything I’d spent on them, felt guilty.

Money-saving initiatives generally seem to backfire. For example, I suggested we get a second-hand bike for DS, to save money. DH looked online and decided he wanted a BMX bike for himself, so he ended up buying that instead. Then we got DS a new bike anyway. DH used to play the drums, but sold them as he didn’t use them anymore. Then he missed it, so he rented a small hall with a drumkit for a couple of years. We went shopping for new shoes for DC and DH found a pair of trainers at 110 euros, for him. It was actually a relief – if he felt he could afford those, surely we aren’t as broke as he says? He also has a very expensive hobby, riding his motorbike. He always says I can ask him for anything and not to worry about money, but then he complains a lot about bills and how he hardly has any money, so I don’t feel I can. My yoga membership is due next month, but I’m not going to renew it. Me and DH go out for a drink together once a week, I’ve suggested we get a bottle of wine and watch Netflix at home instead. Even tiny things, I drink tap water but he hass bottled. I’d like fizzy water too, but it would only mean more stuff to lug home from the supermarket, so I don’t. I feel so petty and resentful. Can we make things fairer, or are we both just spendthrifts?

See I earn less than 20k( no mortgage) and live comfortably. I don't know what else I could spend money on tbh

See I earn less than 20k( no mortgage) and live comfortably. I don't know what else I could spend money on tbh

Op please figure out what the hell would happen to you if your husband wanted to divorce you

Do you have kids?

I don't think there is much 'figuring out' to do. Neither of them have any assets to split (other than possibly a small amount of savings?). The FIL's house would not enter the equation because they don't own it.

The OP's DH would keep living in the family home for free, because it belongs to his family. The OP would need to find (and pay for) alternative accommodation on an income of £6.5k.

The DH has a low income - I don't know what the child support rules are like in Italy, but I doubt she'd get much for child support.

PPs are correct when they say her position is precarious.

Her husband getting a better job won't change the OP's position, because she's being financially abused.

2 grown and one at uni

2 grown and one at uni

Why can't you get a job instead of only working 10 hours a week self employed

This is the most accurate breakdown.

Your husband’s family is well aware of how precarious your situation is. Don’t be a fool. Figure out how to transfer most expenses back to him and increase your earnings. If he dies or you split they will kick you out of the house so fast your head will split.

Do his parents give him money?

Your wages should be going h to the same pot.

all bills and expenses come out of that and you are both transferred the same amount of fun money into your own individual accounts.

You’re a family, you should be on equal footing.

OP, purely from the perspective of increasing your earnings, I suggest you think about offering English "playtime" to children. An increasing number of parents in Italy are looking for ways to support them learning the language from a young age. A few hours a week would potentially give you 200 or more eur monthly extra spending money.

Maybe I'm focusing on something inessential here but: you're paying your accountant over 10% of your taxed salary? Do you speak Italian well enough to communicate directly and unambiguously with him/her?

OP, you need to stop being a walkover and be a bit more "bitchy" and forceful. You are in a tough situation - no assets, and if you are to divorce you will most definitely will not get your kids as you have nowhere to live and they will not be leaving Italy. You have to work on what you got, and make sure you are in charge.

Take a cue form how Italian wives and mothers act and carry themselves.

They are in Italy, which has a lower average income than we do and has no minimum wage. It also has higher unemployment, though I suspect far fewer out of work on medical grounds!

I wonder if the husband has chosen her because she will be easier to manage than an Italian woman who knows what her rights are and has the ability to stand up for them?

I'm surprised people are surprised re: Italian wages. They are that low! Also, similarly in Spain. That's why there are so many young professional Italian and Spanish here in the UK. Every office I worked at had at least 3-5 Spanish and Italians per every 20 people.

This means you’re earning just under 6k. Is there no UC or equivalent in Italy?

Its hardly worth working for that if it takes so much planning.

im genuinely bemused by this thread. How is it possible to raise 2 kids on this salary and afford second holidays and motorbikes?

I think there are a few red herrings here. While the OP's total income is low by UK standards, the cost of living in Italy is significantly lower and as they don't have accommodation costs, it should be possible to live carefully on it.

The other red herring is the OP's working hours - OP, it's not quite clear what sort of teaching you do, but you're clearly working far more than 10 hours per week, whereas that's all that you're charging for. In academia, a full-time lecturer might have only 10 teaching hours per week, often less, because it's recognised that prep and marking and so on take up significant time. But it sounds like you're only remunerated for your direct contact hours. I suspect you're actually working very hard.

The real problem is that despite being married with two children, your husband sees his money as his, and yours as yours, yet also thinks you should be contributing equally to the household's financial outgoings. This is bullshit. If you're a family then it's all family income, and family expenses should come out of the one pot. Like others, I strongly suspect he's being subsidised by his wealthy parents - otherwise €110 on trainers would be utter madness.

You need a serious Talk.

In that case he shouldn’t have lots of money for clothes and shoes and fuzzy water. His discretionary spending goes on his bike, the rest is money he’s taking from you.

Wow OP, gone from being lucky, "really lucky" financially, to I’m so lucky, why am I so broke and why isn’t DH?

It sounds as if DH IS not doing all that well, and not handling it well either, and is now asking you to pay for things, or else paying back but not all of it, being economically-minded with the kids ( and lets you be so with yourself) but not himself.

He likes, is used to, living the higher life, the optics of having money, but over your back.

You do right to be more cautious with money, like you say you've always been, despite being "very lucky financially".

You're dropping your Yoga, suggesting a Netflix night-in , and drinking tap water instead of fizzy water like your DH.

He says not to worry about money, then complains about the bills and transfers expenses on to you?

You're married to a 'proud' , perhaps arrogant man who doesn't want to let the mask slip, even though the reality of higher prices is taking a chunk from what he thought he had, so he lets you carry the load, since you're so much more in tune with the cost of living.

Keep vigilant.

I can’t imagine being in such an unequal relationship where one drinks tap water and the other one bottled fizzy water.

I think until OP recognizes she’s married to an unpleasant, some might say abusive, user, there’s no point in advising. Why should you OP start cutting out the small things you get to enjoy that probably helps your mental and physical health? Main caregiver for children and paying for everything, seemingly completely snowed under. What a piece of shit, it has to be said, your husband is. Watching on while you flounder, knowing he has all this family money to fall back on, is cruel.

You ARE in a precarious position OP, I don’t care what the history is of the house, it’s not yours and never will be. If you ask your husband to share finances fairly, and he refuses and you argue to a point of divorce - what do you actually think will happen to you and your children? The man doesn’t even buy them clothes or seemingly look after them much. That family will close ranks and edge you right out if you start getting too big for your boots and asking to be treated well. Ask me how I know 😐

We are in a small town in northern Italy, and I know plenty of other families with similar incomes. I have been reading mumsnet for a while, and I have always been amazed at the high salaries mentioned - the other day I read about a husband on 56k but needs his wife to work, I cant even imagine that. So I think there is a big difference in salaries and standards of living.
I work in a local secondary school, but its a brand new course, and its only my second year there. The hours will increase year by year as new classes start. I also hope that as the years pass I willl need to do less and less planning. It is just frustrating in the short term.