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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I feel like the 'poor one' compared to DH

202 replies

likespiano · 29/09/2024 09:53

I actually know I’m being unreasonable and I’m trying to figure out why! We’re really lucky, financially, so I don’t know why I’m always scrimping and saving, counting the pennies, while DH buys anything he wants. It’s really jarring.

I’m from UK but live in Italy with DH (in his home town) and our two DC. DD is 10 and NT. DS is 7 and ND. DH works full time, employed, 24 000 euros a year (including tax relief because of DS). I teach, 10 hours a week, self employed, about 10 000 euros a year (6 500 euros after tax). My in-laws live round the corner and do a lot of childcare. They also gave us our house, so we have no rent or mortgage. I know how lucky I am. But seeing as I’m so lucky, why am I so broke and why isn’t DH?

I think our expenses are quite well organised, he pays all the larger bills (food, utilities, car maintenance and insurance) and I pay the smaller ones (internet, water, rubbish) and of course my personal expenses (phone, 150 euros a month into a private pension, my accountant which is 700 euros a year). Obviously any new clothes, coffee, yoga etc on top of that. Kids’ stuff since I’m with them most of the time. I’ve always managed.

Recently I’ve noticed that DH has been gradually transferring expenses that he used to cover onto me. We changed our second car, the new one is in my name and now I’m paying petrol. I know that’s fair, since I use it for work, but I didn’t use to pay petrol as I used his second car, and he filled them both up. We never explicitly agreed it, it just happened. Also, holidays. I paid for an extra holiday this summer because he didn’t come, he doesn’t like the beach. I suggested that in future I and DC go with my mother instead of him. He agreed, and he’ll cover DCs expenses, but that’s not the same as paying for the whole thing, which he did until now. Last month we agreed I was having difficulty, and now he refunds me anything I spend on DC. It’s hard to tell how much it’ll help as it’s so new. But last month, he paid late, rounded down, complained. I minimised, didn’t include everything I’d spent on them, felt guilty.

Money-saving initiatives generally seem to backfire. For example, I suggested we get a second-hand bike for DS, to save money. DH looked online and decided he wanted a BMX bike for himself, so he ended up buying that instead. Then we got DS a new bike anyway. DH used to play the drums, but sold them as he didn’t use them anymore. Then he missed it, so he rented a small hall with a drumkit for a couple of years. We went shopping for new shoes for DC and DH found a pair of trainers at 110 euros, for him. It was actually a relief – if he felt he could afford those, surely we aren’t as broke as he says? He also has a very expensive hobby, riding his motorbike. He always says I can ask him for anything and not to worry about money, but then he complains a lot about bills and how he hardly has any money, so I don’t feel I can. My yoga membership is due next month, but I’m not going to renew it. Me and DH go out for a drink together once a week, I’ve suggested we get a bottle of wine and watch Netflix at home instead. Even tiny things, I drink tap water but he hass bottled. I’d like fizzy water too, but it would only mean more stuff to lug home from the supermarket, so I don’t. I feel so petty and resentful. Can we make things fairer, or are we both just spendthrifts?

OP posts:
NotSorry · 29/09/2024 11:00

This is how we do it.

Total every expenditure, bills, kids clubs, clothes, petrol, shopping, petrol, insurances, haircuts etc. etc. EVERYTHING for a year. These are your outgoings. Minus that from your income. Whatever is left is your discretionary spends and it is divided equally between your. Neither of you are allowed to question each other’s discretionary spends.

We’ve been working it this way for getting on for 30 years and we have no resentment even though he is full time and I am part time (so I earn a lot less)

Silvertulips · 29/09/2024 11:01

I think you should find a job that out earns your husband.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 29/09/2024 11:01

The reason you feel poor and your DH feels financially comfortable is because:

  • You're both on low incomes, but he is likely to be heavily subsidised by his family
  • Even without that subsidy he earns 4 times what you do
  • Your DH has the security of not really having to worry much about saving, because his parents are wealthy and he will always have housing (but you do not - in a divorce you would be left with nothing)
  • You are paying a disproportionate percentage of the bills compared to your share of the income (your income is 21% of the total; in order to have equal disposable income your share of expenses would need to be less than than that percentage), and you pay most of the children's expenses ("since I’m with them most of the time"). This is completely inequitable.
  • This means that the two of you don't have equal spare/disposable income at the end of the month, which is unfair. You are meant to be a partnership, but your setup doesn't reflect this.
  • On top of this, he has been "gradually transferring expenses that he used to cover" on to you, so the arrangements are getting more unfair, not less.

The low earnings are a red herring - you are being financially abused. He knows full well how unfair these arrangements are, and when you tried to raise it with him, he made life difficult for you:

"now he refunds me anything I spend on DC. It’s hard to tell how much it’ll help as it’s so new. But last month, he paid late, rounded down, complained. I minimised, didn’t include everything I’d spent on them, felt guilty."

That guilty feeling comes about because of months/years of being told that you aren't worthy of financial equality in your relationship. He may not say it in so many words, but his actions communicate it clearly.

Lentilweaver · 29/09/2024 11:01

NotSorry · 29/09/2024 11:00

This is how we do it.

Total every expenditure, bills, kids clubs, clothes, petrol, shopping, petrol, insurances, haircuts etc. etc. EVERYTHING for a year. These are your outgoings. Minus that from your income. Whatever is left is your discretionary spends and it is divided equally between your. Neither of you are allowed to question each other’s discretionary spends.

We’ve been working it this way for getting on for 30 years and we have no resentment even though he is full time and I am part time (so I earn a lot less)

Same. But we are generally both frugal and agree what to spend on.

WiserOlderElf · 29/09/2024 11:03

Do you live in a very cheap country? If not, I can’t see how, even without rent/mortgage, you are living the lifestyle you both do on such a low income.

CraftyNavySeal · 29/09/2024 11:03

goodboystepup · 29/09/2024 10:12

You are both very low earners. Is it not possible for both of you to increase your earnings/get better paid jobs?

They live in Italy. Assuming they don’t live in the industrialised northern cities or Rome then that’s a pretty normal income.

Royalshyness · 29/09/2024 11:05

This is sad
I don’t really know what to advise as it sounds difficult to up your hours in a rural community but that’s what I would try and do (if your child with additional needs can be cared for by in laws)

move no advice but want to offer virtual support as its so tough 💐

theentireroom · 29/09/2024 11:05

LittleBearPad · 29/09/2024 10:36

You need a budget to work out how much money you do both have and what your costs are.

Why would he have fizzy water and you don’t? Does he buy it separately? Mark the level on the bottle!! It makes no sense. Much of this makes no sense.

This, and buy a sodastream…

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 29/09/2024 11:05

CraftyNavySeal · 29/09/2024 11:03

They live in Italy. Assuming they don’t live in the industrialised northern cities or Rome then that’s a pretty normal income.

Isn’t Italy really expensive though?

user1473878824 · 29/09/2024 11:06

@likespiano its precarious because if you split up you have absolutely no stake in the house at all, and while it will be passed to your DC the likelihood is your husband’s parents will let him stay there, not you.

Hopper123 · 29/09/2024 11:08

I hate to say this but I don't think you're issue is the finances. Are you 'together' in anything?

AnnaMagnani · 29/09/2024 11:10

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow depends where you live and what your lifestyle is.

Even if you go to Florence you can see that some people are wearing designer gear every day and some people are shopping exclusively in the second hand market.

You absolutely can live on very little in Italy but it sounds like OP has a classic husband who comes from a wealthy family so has wealthy habits, but doesn't have a wealthy income himself.

PermanentTemporary · 29/09/2024 11:11

(I'm looking for someone to do online Italian conversation with if that helps.... don't plan lessons, I just want to chat, and im very rusty! Pm me if that would work...)

I see exactly what you mean about the (relative) security of being in a family house - we are so used to houses as a personal financial asset in the UK that we're losing the ability to see it any other way. Also details like bottled water, which is very cheap and standard in Italy, are sending us down the wrong alley - though if you drink tap water, presumably it's reliable? Also I'm glad that you are paying into a pension, I'd missed that.

I still think that in any couple with a big disparity in income, you've got to be open with each other and plan your spending together - and stick to it.

Haroldwilson · 29/09/2024 11:11

How typical is your situation for the region, op?

My impression of southern Italy is it's poor, patriarchal, close knit families, not much ever changes. Is that accurate? Is it culture clash? It's not equal but is it what happens where you live?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 29/09/2024 11:13

AnnaMagnani · 29/09/2024 11:10

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow depends where you live and what your lifestyle is.

Even if you go to Florence you can see that some people are wearing designer gear every day and some people are shopping exclusively in the second hand market.

You absolutely can live on very little in Italy but it sounds like OP has a classic husband who comes from a wealthy family so has wealthy habits, but doesn't have a wealthy income himself.

But food prices? Petrol? Aren’t these also expensive?

The UK is an expensive place to live. The big cities in the U.K. are more expensive. But food and petrol is the same everywhere in the U.K. ( too expensive!!) it was basic costs l was referring to. I think clothes are pricey in Italy too.

theentireroom · 29/09/2024 11:15

Sounds like he gets handouts from his parents, this is why he can shop for himself but not you.

Lentilweaver · 29/09/2024 11:16

My impression of Italian values was that they believe in a joint family pot. Maybe I am wrong.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 29/09/2024 11:18

One thing on the bottled water - from my experience, in Italy it’s quite normal to drink only bottled water - and often for that to be fizzy. It doesn’t cost as much as it does in the UK, but obviously it is still heavy to carry home (getting the impression you go to shops on foot?)

Edit - but any amount of fizz is still bad for your teeth and it’s not a “need” for anyone. Just wanting to provide context.

AnnaMagnani · 29/09/2024 11:21

Can't speak for food and petrol but can to clothes. In the UK we have this myth that everyone in Italy is mega stylish and wearing Italian designer 24/7.

OK some people do that. But they are a minority. And they also budget to spend a lot of their income on clothes.

A lot of people however are on low incomes, don't have that many clothes and are buying v cheap and nasty items from family shops or market traders.

BadSkiingMum · 29/09/2024 11:23

It does seem that your income is very low for the lifestyle that you are expecting.

A family on the equivalent income in the UK would not be running a motorcycle, having a yoga class membership, taking second holidays or buying new children’s bikes. Frankly, both of you are spending too much - sorry.

The family wealth dynamic seems quite old fashioned and patriarchal, which isn’t too surprising as Italy is a more conservative country than the UK. Do you get on well with your in laws? What about your DH? Will the property and business definitely pass to your DH or are there siblings in the mix? I would be very wary about the future as, to be honest, you are one family row away from finding yourself homeless. Unless Italian inheritance law automatically provides for children, neither you nor your DH has title to any property whatsoever. I have been a close witness to a not-too-dissimilar situation (adult child still in the family home providing care for the elderly parent; jealous siblings) and when the parent eventually died it really didn’t end well. Thank god the adult child had built a separate nest egg otherwise they would have technically been homeless - although we would have taken them in.

At the very least you need some savings in case of emergency. Is there anything you and your DH could do to generate additional income on your own account? What about taking in a lodger? Growing micro herbs? Online language teaching work? Buying and selling motorcycle parts?

Finally, please do tell me that your DH is a dreamy, charming Italian guy and you live in a rustic rural heaven in Tuscany, Umbria or some equivalent region, as something has to be making this worthwhile!

EverestMilton · 29/09/2024 11:23

I think I would be terrified if I was you... Low income, no marital assets. Husband showing signs of shortening the purse strings. Your house owned by your father in law. If he divorces you, you have no claim to it. If DH dies you have no claim to it. I assume you have no pension?? Savings?? Life insurance for DH?? You risk no roof over your head and insufficient means to support yourself
You are also working for effectively half the rate you think you are if you do not charge for your planning time.
Time for a cold hard look at both your finances and spending. You also need to find a job which pays more. Start thinking about the bigger problem of where you will potentially be when you are 65 not spending on bottled water tomorrow.......

MrsBobtonTrent · 29/09/2024 11:24

Friends in Italy seem to do a lot of cash in hand work on the side. It's pretty mainstream as the taxes and bureacracy are so high. So maybe English conversation on the side? And I would (personally) squirrel some of that away from family eyes - you are living very precariously imo.

Also, you say that family expenses are gradually transferring over to you - I would push back on this. Just gradually transfer some of them back. And renew your yoga thing - if you can't pay the electrcity bill, DH or his family will no doubt step in rather than lose the lights. They are all being rather laid back, so when in Rome...

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 29/09/2024 11:29

You sound kind of bewildered. As others have said, your joint income is not high for a family of four even without rent, and doesn't sound as if it can support your lifestyle - DH's special bike, weekly drinks in a bar, yoga classes etc. Your individual income has to cover running a car and all the other expenses that go with being self employed, which can't leave much, and you don't increase your hours because you feel unconfident and get stressed working longer hours. So it makes sense that money is tight. What is the bewilderment about? Is it because you feel that DH expects to have a certain standard of living for himself which is higher than the one you have? Is it because the two of you have disconnected from each other and are no longer a team? Is stress and lack of confidence part of the problem? I'd suggest that you try to find ways to discuss all this more openly, with DH is possible and also good friends who are on your side and can help you work out what is going on and what is a good way through.

EI12 · 29/09/2024 11:32

Tulip8 · 29/09/2024 09:57

Why are your wages so low? Both of them are very low.

Аааа. Maybe now some MNetters will understand why even such high achievers like Italian physics professors run to the UK for work.

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 11:33

We have a house account, a fun account and our personal accounts . Anything we do together comes out of the fun account. We pay in an amount in proportion to our wages.

Your problem, aside from not having a joint account, is that you are living outside your means. Spend less or earn more. It seems your partner is the culprit here.