Most pleasant way to split and clear Grandparents house

[MotherWill]

How do you do it?
Big house, lots of people hosted over the years, everyone feels they have a stake in it. The couple are suddenly looking very frail and I can sense old sibling rivalries and the grandchildren jostling.

What's the fairest/kindest/least traumatic way to handle the logistics.

Three siblings plus long term partners
Six grandchildren from 22 to 17.

Obviously in an ideal world it would all fall magically into place but after overhearing a grandchild picking through Granny's jewellery box I think we have trouble ahead.

What's works? What doesn't?

is there a WhatsApp group?? If you want to be blunt, you could write “Seeing as someone has been trying to raid Granny’s jewellery box this week (naming no names), we are making a list of everything / taking photos so that everything is open and transparent and it is also useful for insurance purposes

How incredibly rude if they are still alive! My possessions are just that, mine until I die. You don't go around listing other people's possessions as if they are to share until they ask you to. It's fine to have a conversation about possessions with them themselves, but beyond cheeky and actually offensive to start listing and dividing things.

Unless they are very valuable, and few things are in these big old houses, there will be more items than people, and what ends up happening is the poor person left tries to pass on the old books, ornaments, pictures and much has to go to charity or be left behind. Jewellery the person can bequeath as they see fit, not as anyone else sees fit.

You can fret over this stuff, or you can decide you don’t care. I have one small, financially valueless, memento of each of my grandmothers, and nothing from my parents’ belongings (I had an equal share of money once their house was sold). My brothers, sisters, and I daresay their kids, presumably have the financially valuable stuff. No skin off my nose, and I’ve no idea what rows - if any - or conversations took place about it. I decided long ago I didn’t need that stress, renounced being a joint executor, and let the rest of them crack on.

Or you could ask your parents to write a letter of wishes. We have these, on the advice of our solicitor. They set out who gets what belongings and what is to happen to the rest. They are stored with our Wills, which deal with the house and money, and then say ‘all else in accordance with the Letters of Wishes’. Ours were written in discussion with family and friends, and it was very cathartic (my husband has a life-limiting illness) and remarkably non-avaricious, but they could do this without anyone’s input.

Power of Attorney ends on death. It is executors of the will who deal with the estate.
Also worth noting that gifts of value given in the last 7 years are liable for inheritance tax, although there are some allowances here.

I also love the idea of people wearing my jewellery whilst I'm still alive.

If things are sentimental and not that valuable, then you will find that most people will want one thing, say a lovely broach, and a table, and that will be it.

The biggest problem is volume these days, the sheer volume of things they have in their house. You might wish they were doing Swedish Death Cleaning, but if they are not, and they are not interested in that, then your main issue is how to support their living right now. That's the most important things- and I notice your niece you think is a 'problem' came to her Granny with the items and chatted about them, in other words, she is spending time with her right now, when it counts. That's the most important thing from grandparents perspective, to see their grandchildren and children!

I don't think grandchildren sitting with granny going through 'bits' is mercenary,

it is when the adult grandchild went and got the items to then go through it. Would you be happy with a member of your family just heading off into your bedroom and coming back with your personal items to have a look through?

if granny had got it out first or if the adult grandchild had asked first then that is different but they didn’t.

Having done it before, and had good experiences and bad experiences...

In the first instance, only the children of the deceased/executors enter the house if needed. Nothing is removed at this point.

Then deal with what the will says in terms of chattel. The will might specify a particular necklace is to go to a particular person.

Then the possessions that remain in the house that are not specified in the will need to be divided.

Only the 3 children of the deceased enter. No partners, no grandchildren. The 3 of you represent your own individual family's wishes. Fewer people involved the better. Take a category of items at a time and divide it up between you, eg jewellery, ornaments, china, etc. Whoever gets the 'best' in the first category gets last dibs on the next one. Take it in turns

Anything not wanted, sell or get a house clearance team to deal with it, then add the money to the estate

If you read OP's updates though, it wasn't explicitly a raid on the box, it was more a case of the granddaughter sitting with Granny and 'looking through it' (probably with the ulterior motives tbf but with plausible deniability) - but that granny enjoyed doing it and telling stories and that nothing was actually asked for or taken at the time, more that OP has read into it that the granddaughter was trying to lay claim to certain things (not saying she's wrong but you can imagine what the other side of the story will be). If you sent a message like that following something of that nature in my family Whatsapp group feelings would be massively hurt and WW3 would kick off which seems to be exactly what OP's trying to avoid. There's no real reason to deliberately start a fight now and in fact every reason to avoid it and keep the peace as it will upset the grandparents no end to have their family all rowing over who gets what possessions before they're even dead!

OP I'd leave it, if your grandparents do want to write down some kind of list of who gets what sentimental items specifically that would be helpful but if they don't want to I wouldn't push them. You do really tend to see the absolute worst side of your family members in this kind of situation but in a way the more you try to prevent it the more you can just fuel conflict. How we've always approached it in my family is that the few valuable or very sentimental items, or anything specifically left to a named individual are secured by the executors and divided between beneficiaries accordingly (may mean having valuables independently valued or even sold at auction like a PP mentioned). Everything else is divided up on a loosely fair preference basis and you really can't be involving yourself too much in minutae of whether Uncle Bob's grab of the record collection means he got slightly more than aunty Linda's getting the jewellery collection IMO. If uncle Bob and aunty Linda or their respective partners choose to have a huge falling out over it that's on them. And I really don't think in most circumstances you need to be forbidding people the house in case they pinch stuff, again, is the stuff really worth the family falling out?

In terms of then clearing the house out once things anyone may want and valuables are gone, personally I'd say bringing in professional clearers is the way, yes this does cost money but it can come from the estate and avoids hurt feelings over one executor/sibling feeling they've had to do all the work for no recompense (and it's bloody hard work clearing a house too). Good clearance companies will try and ensure anything that can be reused is etc. by the time you've hired a skip or a van to do tip runs with large items and accounted for your own time and travel costs if you don't live locally, the professional approach starts to look like pretty good value!

I’d do a group email to all - not including parents- to say the “ I’ve always loved” comments are inappropriate and obvious. No need to name names, so those who have done it won’t be sure if you are referring to a much more overt incident than theirs. But it’s not fair for your parents to hear all that and it’s time to step in,

That's pretty much what my parents did. Then they each had a pack of little sticker dots of a different colour and took turns to identify one thing they wanted (outside of the items that were left to individuals via their wills.)

It's up to them how each deals with their own kids and spouses. But no one else gets to take anything from the house, and why would they need access?

@MimiSunshine the granddaughter was also getting the family stories and memories and having fun with her granny. If granny thought it inappropriate, she should say 'I haven't decided what I'm going to do' and then make her own list, helped by other family if she needs support.

I don't think you necessarily need to read this as mercenary unless it was a diamond necklace.

Different coloured dot stickers. Executors meet at the house. Discuss high value items together (that aren’t mentioned in the will, obviously). Then they go round putting stickers on things they want or their children have said they want. Review and share out. Invite grandchildren to repeat the process if required. No talking, no arguing, just stickers then the executors sort it out. The rest goes to house clearance/skip.

I agree don’t reference the jewellery box incident or you’ll cause an argument.

Just be oblique and say there has been a lot of it and you aren’t naming names.

Make a list of everything & then people take it in turns to choose from the list.

Now.... who's going to be first??? 😂

I think it's lovely that a grand daughter spent time chatting with her granny, so what if she likes some of the jewellery. This thread is odd and sad. It doesn't reflect anything I've ever experienced.

I think you have 2 completely separate problems here. One is the vultures who need to be stopped. Two is the question of what happens after death. You will need a solution to that but whatever you put in, it's not the solution to the first problem.

Things will not necessarily be as they are when your parents pass away. All my elderly relatives who've died have ended up downsizing first, and a lot of the volume was dealt with then, with their decision making. A big house can get overwhelming quite suddenly. So I wouldn't do too much detailed planning on the assumption you'll be dealing with a 5 bed house full of stuff. It's not easy helping them to downsize, but it's more dignified when it's the elderly parent making the decisions.

But Op said other family members are saying “ I’ve always loved …” each time they visit, That’s not the same as sitting chatting. It could equally be innocent in a nostalgic way, as people realise the era of their parents/grandparents living there with thd house as it is is coming to an end. But it’s not fair to risk the grandparents feeling stalked in their last days.

Having been in this situation twice, I know that whoever has the keys/has access to them, and gets in first, they take whatever they want. It's pure logistics. How many people do/will have keys OP? You could try having a meeting with just the siblings and say nothing to leave the house before they do? Are you all executors? Or as many have said ask your parents if they want to gift things now.

'Picking through' should be 'stealing', if they took anything away, maybe threaten to report the theft to the police.
In my family there is a family joke, 'I've put my sticker on that ' but it is a joke.

Ok we did this re my in laws place. 5 kids, 12 grandkids.
first, everyone nominated 3 things they wanted from the house. in writing. A piece of Furniture, a painting, a book, a saucepan, whatever.
starting from the kids, they each got their first pick. If two of them nominated the same thing, there would be a discussion. If no agreement, eldest got first pick, younger got second pick. Grandchildren ignored at this point.
once all kids have an item, do it again for second item.
once all kids have two items, then move to grandchildren.
again, everyone gets first pick unless there is a clash, and they try to resolve. If can’t resolve, eldest gets it. They only get one defined item.
once everyone has two mementos (kids) or one (grandkids), that’s when we brought in the auction houses. Now my IL lived in a very big house for generations so there was a lot worth selling. Also my MIL was alive but in care with dementia and she needed the proceeds of sale to pay her care. So we went through the auction houses - big sale at Christie’s, smaller stuff to local auction house, old toys, stamps and medals to specialist dealers, antiquarian bookshop came and got all valuable books. So house was stripped of valuables.
At this point if any kids or grandkids wanted items of value they had to pay for them, but only the likely reserve price.
after that, what was left - anyone could have it. People would say “I’ll take the plates” “I’ll take the chest of drawers in bedroom 3” etc. we did it all on a big kids and grandkids WhatsApp so it was all transparent. Deal was they had to collect. When nobody wanted anything else, we brought in the house clearers.
Exhausting but nobody feels shortchanged.
also there were a few things (family portraits etc) that nobody wanted but equally didn’t want to throw away, and some cousins took those (eg portrait of great grandmother who was their great grandmother too). So don’t forget the wider family.

That's really another case in point for giving your things away while you are still alive. It's all very well to think that granny wants to die surrounded with her favorite things but she may not want to and she may well want to give her jewellery away to her grandkids and live on knowing there won't be rubbish skips and squabbles after she passes.
My granny cleared her house years ago, she has a few sentimental bits, photographs and a minimal daily things she needs for comfort. There will be very little to do after she passes. And she is happier for it because it also means her house is very manageable for her.
My ex's parents held on to every single thing. They had moth-eaten carpets from their great aunt who passed away in the 90s in their attic and 3 generations-worth of furniture. The house is full to the brim and I feel lucky I left the relationship behind because there is no way we'd be able to deal with it at any speed after their passing. Not to mention costs of appraising valuables and costs of binning the rest.

I also did my mums house (same deal, in care, needs money for fees). That was easier as she had downsized to a smaller house 10 years ago so a lot of the throwing out had been done by her already. One brother abroad said I don’t want a single thing. Me and sister wanted very little. So that was mostly, again, local auction house, stuff on Facebook marketplace to sell, lots to charity shops. Grandchildren took what they wanted (mostly kitchen stuff for uni, my Dd wanted the kitchen table and chairs for her flat). I have 50 years of family photos that I don’t want, in boxes. Rest went to the tip.

Who knows they may live another 10 years or outlive some of you. I've seen it happen in my family. Just the thought of my grandma's death is horrible, I don't want to even think about it. She's now 100 and outlived many family members. Your family seems awful. If it gets really bad you should consider donating all their things to a charity they really care about.

Neither my mother nor mother in law would recognise any of their belongings now I’m afraid. They get pleasure from a cosy cardigan, a good apple crumble, sharing a cup of tea with someone they don’t recognise but who is kind (and is in fact their child). Can’t really process photos even.

Shouldn’t you have done youngest gets it if no agreement in the second time round? Otherwise the youngest can get short straw every time.

It can be a difficult time OP. Lots of mixed emotions and stressful for everyone. I think it's useful to remember that and pick your battles. A close family is lovely to have and will hopefully bring comfort to each other when the time comes. Some things are probably worth just biting your tongue over (unless we're talking huge sums of money and/or going against parents' set out wishes). If you hope for the future to remain close to these relatives I'd be mindful of any conversations that could escalate and cause major fallouts (that would upset you) especially when everyone is feeling defensive / sensitive of actions. Take care of yourself.