Most pleasant way to split and clear Grandparents house

[MotherWill]

How do you do it?
Big house, lots of people hosted over the years, everyone feels they have a stake in it. The couple are suddenly looking very frail and I can sense old sibling rivalries and the grandchildren jostling.

What's the fairest/kindest/least traumatic way to handle the logistics.

Three siblings plus long term partners
Six grandchildren from 22 to 17.

Obviously in an ideal world it would all fall magically into place but after overhearing a grandchild picking through Granny's jewellery box I think we have trouble ahead.

What's works? What doesn't?

Just to add my great grandmother estate was auctioned in this manner, though she did pick out one piece of jewellery for each of her grandchildren to be gifted before the auction and each piece stipulated in the will.

My mother received a gold chain with fob watch and then the grand sum of £1000, but this was 1978

it worked well as there weren't any squabble

Thanks for all the pragmatic, logistical ideas.
I think a safe or locked cupboard would upset them, they absolutely should be surrounded by their stuff to the very end.
The Will is not detailed and they are happy with this, they wouldn't enjoy or have the mental strength to suddenly rework it.
I will push for the Wake at a hotel, this will be unpopular but I can absolutely see people making spontaneous decisions and taking stuff without any discussion.

I can absolutely imagine the biggest row being over the low financial but sentimental stuff.

So granddaughter went into jewellery box as opposed to Granny bringing it out? If so yeesh, I hope the will is comprehensive.

Are you executor? Do you have power of attorney? Are your parents still compos mentis?

Can't your grandparents say what goes where given they're still alive? Get it all written down. But things of little value, does it really matter where it ends up? You can't all keep every sentimental item can you? Don't squabble for the sake of it.

Maybe the gd saw something she thought was lovely and the grandmother will gift it to her.

So what? It's literally nothing to do with the OP.

Nobody takes anything - ‘we all have sentimental relationships with the house, taking anything before it’s all been worked out is theft.’
grandchildren pull their head in and make no requests. Siblings put in for sentimental items, once siblings have been fairly acquitted on a take turns to pick something basis, then grandchildren may put in 3 requests each, which will be weighed up where they are for the same time, so if a and b want the mirror and a and c want the armchair you can promise that a won’t get both.
we have had a list of minor jewellery shared out and grandchildren provided their top 5 preferences, each received one of their preferences, the siblings tried to make sure all got treated fairly. Dhs gram had a lot of china, it was put in little sets and each grandchild oldest to youngest could come in and claim a set. Grandchildren have never been able to claim things that aren’t offered to them after siblings have done all the deciding and sentimental value. Your example is ghoulish, perhaps practice a few sharp words like ‘your mum is grieving, it’s clear you aren’t but could you have a bit of care and respect for her? She could do with your support and all you’re doing is counting grandmas things.

My gran had a list with every single piece of jewellery itemised with a description and detailed list of who was getting what. On the day of the funeral we all met up to painstakingly go through it 😅 and items were handed out to the more distant cousins and friends at the funeral/wake. This is the best thing to do imo.

Try and get ‘granny’ to do this now while she is compos mentis and let her do it alone in her own time with agreement from all children. Everyone gets a copy.

Also, ask yourself if you are genuinely irritated out of concern or if you are partly worried about items you thought would go to you going GD.

Generally though jewellery just goes to the daughter(s) with one each for granddaughters. This is what happened on my mums side but on my dads side it was only sons.

It literally is, emotionally manipulating a woman to give away her jewellery before she’s dead is elder abuse. She clearly hasn’t decided of her own accord it’s time to share out the movable assets. And if she’s dead then it is literally legally the ops business as an executor and beneficiary.

Don't be ridiculous.

You know your family best but my late mum used to love going through her jewellery (non valuable) collection with her family members. There was no hint of any grabbiness. oh....just read your update, that's not good.

When my grandad died we all just talked to each other about the things we would like and the stories behind why. It was really nice as we got to talk through our memories of him. These were all really little things, think cheap ornaments. There were some people who wanted the same thing, with similar memories, but we figured it out together. The rest of the stuff was just sent to an auction house or cashcow and that money was considered part of the estate. None of us were particularly grabby and we weren't bothered about it being financially fair, we just wanted our memories.

Having said that, we did come across some little baby animal ornaments with mine and my brothers initials on them. Seems like as children we had gone through all the cute animals dividing them between us for 'when grandad died'. He was probably only about 60 at the time 😆in my defence I was probably only 6 or 7.

Take photos & draw up a list with them for “house insurance”

I was executor of my grandfather's estate. All three of his children predeceased him but there were four grandchildren, two step-grandchidren, and some grabby very involved children in law.

The will basically split everything between the children, and for his personal items it said family can take what they like and anything left over should go to Oxfam. Various different family members came to help clear and tidy the house during the weeks after his death and took what sentimental items they wanted, and the rest of the bits and pieces apart from big items of furniture we took to an Oxfam shop.

The estate agent said it would be easier to sell the house if it still had large items of furniture in it, so that viewers could get a sense of the layout, so we did that and then we had a house clearance firm come and take those things away once we'd exchanged contracts. They charged a few hundred pounds but knocked a bit off as they said they could sell some of the items. Oxfam didn't want old fridges or sofas etc. The house clearance fees came out of the estate account.

I just made sure everything was documented properly and put it all in writing, in emails with all the beneficiaries and with my solicitor. It was time consuming but not actually that painful.

Well that grandchild needs to be pulled up on this with their parent involved. How disgusting.

Grandparents need to be asked how THEY want it to be and a will made, with everyone told in no uncertain terms.

That sounds so difficult, and likely to get nasty if a solution isn't found.

Can you have an honest but gentle conversation with your parents about the family dynamics after they've gone?

My Grandma made a list of specific items (unsure if there was photos as I just received items and didn't see the list), where she listed everything that she wanted anyone in particular to have. Most things weren't particularly high value. This wasn't in the will, but she made sure she told people beforehand.

Maybe something like 'while you still have your faculties, if there is anything in particular you'd like people to have, could you make a list of it now to help us once the time comes, and to avoid any potential disputes at a time when emotions would be hightened.'

After my Grandma's death, my uncle gave each of us the items in accordance with my Grandma's wishes. We could have asked for anything else if we wanted, I'm not sure if anyone did - tbh he probably would have welcomed that rather than having to get rid of it himself!

Good idea and tell the whole family.

is there a WhatsApp group?? If you want to be blunt, you could write “Seeing as someone has been trying to raid Granny’s jewellery box this week (naming no names), we are making a list of everything / taking photos so that everything is open and transparent and it is also useful for insurance purposes”

My grandmother handed me a ring a long time ago and said “I want you to have this and I know that if I don’t give it to you then you’ll never get it”.
My own mother asked my sibling and I, is there anything of hers that we especially want when she goes as she’ll put it in her will, otherwise everything gets split down the middle.
I think you do need to encourage your mum to instigate this conversation and perhaps you can facilitate getting the will changed.

I'm sorry OP, this is stressful.

I'm assuming these are your parents you are talking about and you and your siblings are the executors.

There's so much to deal with here and I'd start by arranging an informal meeting with your siblings.

First of all I would focus on your parents' needs while they are still alive. Do they have lasting powers of attorney? Can they actually continue to live in their house or do they need to move into some sort of care home? (Avoid the kind of retirement flats with huge service charges like the fucking plague, they're impossible to sell. Realistically they either need to stay in their house with a carer if necessary, downsize to a smaller place with a carer if necessary, or move into a proper care home, depending on their level of independence and medical needs.)

Focus the discussion on these things first.

Then say, realistically, they're going to die at some point and when that happens we're all going to be bereaved and it will be hard to think about the practicalities, so what can we plan out in advance? Do we know where the wills are? How do they organise their finances and pay their bills? If they're still doing that for themselves and one of them dies, will the survivor be able to access money? Or do you need to do all that stuff for them now anyway? Do you have all the contacts you will need, for example, to notify the administrators of any pensions they have that they have died, and that sort of thing? Do you know what arrangements they would like for their funerals, burial, cremation, music, wake etc.

Then once you've talked about those aspects and worked out what you need to have in place, perhaps start to talk about wills and possessions.

From my own personal experience, when a couple leave everything to their children equally and don't make specific personal bequests, sorting out all their possessions can be an absolute nightmare. From a legal point of view, if their estate may be above the inheritance tax threshold, any objects of value should be valued and added to the estate for the purposes of probate. This is a very good legal reason for saying that when they pass away, people shouldn't just go in and grab stuff before it's all been sorted out. The proper way to do it is for the executors to go through together, get rid of rubbish, make an inventory of what is left, and store it somewhere safe while the estate is going through probate. In terms of the emotional side, you could suggest that in the immediate aftermath of their deaths, emotions are likely to be running high and people won't necessarily be in the best frame of mind to make good decisions.

So when the time comes, get the funeral out of the way, then the executors (and no one else) should go through and identify what gets kept and distributed to family and what you can get rid of. (You may want to say to the grandchildren that if there are any small things or trinkets they feel particularly sentimental about, to let you know so they don't get chucked, without promising that those things will end up going to any particular person. I know that the one thing I took from my grandmother's house would have ended up in the bin if I hadn't rescued it.) Then you do your inventory which should include anything of financial or sentimental value, including things like jewellery, family photos, any war medals or other family heirlooms, valuable furniture and so on. If anything needs to be valued, do that. Sort out probate. And then maybe six months later (not too soon after their deaths, but not too long either), have everyone sit round the table and look at what is there, and try to find a way of distributing it fairly, without falling out. It won't be an easy meeting but what is guaranteed to make people fall out is if certain family members just go and grab what they want before their parents/grandparents are even cold. Say you know of families who have been ripped apart by this sort of thing and you want to make sure it doesn't happen to yours.

It's horrible, but I firmly believe that if you take matters in hand, talk about it well before you need to, and have an agreed plan that you can put into action when the time comes instead of trying to make decisions when you're all grieving, you will save yourselves some heartache.

Take photos now, of how the house is, the things that you have special memories of, spend time with your parents having special moments around these special things. These are what is important... the memories, not the objects.

If there are things of real monetary or real sentimental value, then perhaps list and estimate these... and should someone start to take things, have a conversation about how these should be distributed.

Have a conversation with your siblings...... gently let it be known that you do not wish to witness the house being scavenged and you would like each family member to have something.

I helped a friend clear her parents house last year. No siblings, no grandchildren, for me no emotional connection.
We found the endless decision making very hard, the house was stuffed with not only the parents stuff but also most of the contents of two other siblings houses. The practicalities were time consuming and the volume eye watering. We found ourselves in tears some days, and grimly black humoured others. It was easier my friend not having to think of others but also she found that also made it sadder.

Both of us have spent the last year, getting our own houses in order.

It’s just stuff.
If you want something for the memories take a photo to remind you then let it go. Family relationships are way more important than concrete objects.
If someone is greedy and needy let them have it, they are less happy than someone who knows what really matters in life.

This is how my family have dealt with it

(1) Grandchildren have no say, unless grandparents choose to give / leave items to them

(2) Someone prepares a list of all items

(3) Throw a dice / draw straws for who chooses first

(4) Siblings take it in turns to choose items

(5) Anything left / not wanted goes to charity

My grandmother gave away many of her precious items (precious to us, not hugely valuable) in the few years before she died. She went to live elsewhere and in the process gave away quite a lot of things.

If they have capacity, and are sitting there sharing things out, that's up to them. There's no issue for you to deal with, they are there, they are sharing their things, that's up to them! My granny gave lots to other grandchildren, that was her choice.

I didn't ask my granny what she gave to others or what was 'fair', that would be outrageous whilst she was still sitting there, it was up to her.

POA should be obtained for financial and health matters, although if there are two of them, one may retain capacity and be able to carry on for a while.

I don't think grandchildren sitting with granny going through 'bits' is mercenary, it's a way of the grandparent coming to terms that their life isn't going to go on forever and wanting people to have things. I don't care about 'things' for some reason so I never volunteered to take anything, I do have special memories of my granny and I didn't have any specific thing I wanted, but others might do, and in conversation with her, that's fine.

The will needs to be very clear about all property (eg can be down to specific pieces of jewellery/items to be given to specific people or all possessions to be sold and money divided equally between.....) and written by a decent solicitor with experience of writing wills.

The executors should agree now what will happen when the last parent dies. For example- the house can be securely locked and only entered by the executors as a group. No items removed without all 3 executors agreeing.

Executors can only vary the terms of the will with the agreement if all beneficiaries eg if the will says particular jewellery is for x then it must go to x unless x agrees to the variation, or if y is left out of the division of money, they can only be included if all of the beneficiaries agree to the variation.

You have a difficulty if people are taking advantage now when your parents are still alive. If your parents have capacity, they have to stop that, or if that is what they want to do that's their choice. If your parents don't have capacity, an LPA should be in place and the attorney (s) should stop it happening.

It sounds more about the culture in the family and greed.

My mums one of 5 kids (she was one of 2 executors) she has similar concerns about a couple of my cousins. My mum and aunts agreed to keep all grandchildren out of the house until they’d sorted through the belongings. So the children took what was ‘theirs’ like their childhood belongings, things they had bought for their parents and then asked grandchildren if there were any specific things they wanted and then they decided who got what based on that.

Grandchildren were only in the house for the funeral but everything of value was boxed up out of the way upstairs. It was framed as ensuring it was fair, rather than concerns of people taking things.