Page 11 | Labour PIP benefit cuts

Stickytoffeepudding6 · 2024-09-25T20:01:47+00:00

Can someone help me please? I'm absolutely spiraling. I've just read up about the Labour conference and everything about PIP reforms. I'm absolutely panicking. I feel like giving up. I'm on PIP with mental health. I do work. Part time.

Julen7 · 20/03/2025 11:00

LakieLady · 20/03/2025 10:53

The implications of this are massive.

When someone loses their PIP, their carer loses their carer's allowance and would be treated as a jobseeker for benefit purposes. The "cared for person" would be left to their own devices while their former carer was at work/looking for work.

A lot of claimants have to use some of their PIP (and LCWRA component of UC) to top up their rent, because of the failure to increase local housing allowance rates in line with actual rent.

People under-35 who get PIP are exempt from the rule that caps the housing element of UC at the shared housing rate, they will lose another big chunk of money in addition to the loss of PIP and LCWRA.

Some people stand to lose over £800 a month. Not many people can afford to lose that much money without a considerable degree of hardship.

I'm really worried about the implications of this for a lot of my clients. All my clients have MH issues, many have other health problems as well. They will be absolutely terrified. The proposals seem to be targetting the mentally unwell and will impact them very significantly.

However, I suspect that this may turn out to be another of those things where a government makes a proposal that seems very harsh, creates a hue and cry, then waters it down so that they can claim they've listened and taken on board people's views while achieving exactly what they wanted in the first place.

I just hope I'm right.

I don’t think they will water it down. They need to claw money back from welfare or growth/economy will completely stall.

Flopsythebunny · 20/03/2025 11:07

Laurmolonlabe · 19/03/2025 23:45

I'm sympathetic, but the government really has no alternative but to revisit disability benefits- the cost has spiralled by about 400% since Covid.
Practically all the increase is for mental health reasons, everyone went through lockdown and all the stresses , so potentially anyone could claim-and looking at the figures this is what has happened.
Disability benefits have always been more generous than out of work benefits, and are therefore more attractive.
I would not be surprised if the whole idea of paying more for disability is revisited, people with disabilities, physical or mental do not usually need more money than the simply unemployed.
It will be unpopular, but that is to be expected- I'm not sure a case can be made that so many more people are now unable to work because of mental health issues than 5 years ago- this increase has not been seen in other countries.

Don't they? Who's going to pay for my nappies, carer to come in and help me shower and dress, the extra cost of having food delivered, the cost of multiple medical appointments every month (one of those costs me £80 per month for a taxi because I can't use public transport and I'm not allowed to drive afterwards), the lady who comes in to clean, her husband who keeps my garden tidy, the extra costs in utilities, the disability aids?

Serencwtch · 20/03/2025 12:44

JoyousOpalTurtle · 20/03/2025 10:34

I think this is a really positive move. It's sadly the case that a lot of people have written themselves off and chucked themselves on the scrap heap, throwing their hands up and saying 'I can't work ever' and then expecting to coast along indefinitely.

There are people that absolutely need that support, and I hope the reforms does a better job of differentiating so the support is there for those who need it, and people who don't are encouraged to re-engage with society.

Work is good for your health, activity and achievement boosts self-esteem, meeting others helps you feel closer to others and part of something. Work isn't really optional, but it's seen as optional amongst huge parts of the country.

I know a lot of people won't like it, and it will feel a bit scary and new for a while, but in the long run I think a lot of people will be glad. Those who say 'there's no support there!', our local Talking Therapies service (used to be called IAPT, they're all over the country) has a team of therapists delivering mental health treatment (with the waiting list being less than six months for all treatments, often a lot less) and also a team of employment advisors that support people with all kinds of job things like applying for jobs, writing CVs, interview skills, accessing funds for clothing and transport, liaising with employers about reasonable adjustments, educating on workplace rights, and many other things.

Unfortunately giving someone longterm open ended indefinite benefits and saying 'you're right, you can't possibly be expected to work' sends the message to that person that they're useless and can't contribute or be productive. Tell someone they can't do something and it often becomes true. That's not fair to anyone.

Also I saw something about how jobseekers allowance might be time-limited and based on contributions and not as low as a result? I think that's fantastic. As it stands if I lost my job I'd get a paltry amount, despite having never claimed benefits before other than child benefit, despite having paid taxes and NI for two decades.

I have a long term progressive disability that leaves me in severe chronic pain on a daily basis, and need a lot of medication to function. I'm also as lefty and liberal as they come. I'm actually impressed by the Labour government tackling this head on. I didn't think they had it in them.

IAPT is not available to people with more complex or severe mental illness & also excludes people with more severe ASD & LD (on DSR - dynamic support register), also anyone with current suicidal ideation or high risk of self harm.

I have a type of bipolar disorder & cannot access IAPT.

JoyousOpalTurtle · 20/03/2025 13:39

Serencwtch · 20/03/2025 12:44

IAPT is not available to people with more complex or severe mental illness & also excludes people with more severe ASD & LD (on DSR - dynamic support register), also anyone with current suicidal ideation or high risk of self harm.

I have a type of bipolar disorder & cannot access IAPT.

Show quote history

IAPT is designed to treat common mental health problems (you can find the list online: depression, GAD, OCD, PTSD, panic disorder, several others), however having a diagnosis of an SMI doesn't preclude someone from IAPT intervention as long as their presenting problem and symptoms is one of the disorders they treat, rather than symptoms of their SMI. Suicidal ideation isn't a barrier, however the presence of plans/intent does mean someone isn't suitable for IAPT.

If someone's presenting problem is their SMI or personality disorder they fall under secondary care services, or primary care hubs which have come into force in some areas of the country.

Lots of people claiming PIP and stating they're unable to work are saying it's due to depression and anxiety, which does fall under IAPT. People with SMI whose symptoms are still very much florid will need treatment for something IAPT doesn't offer.

Risk of self harm isn't a concern, if it is not "dangerous", lots of people self harm, it's a part of so many mental health problems and a way a lot of people manage distress.

It's a shame there is such misconception out there about what NHS mental health services do and what's available.

Serencwtch · 20/03/2025 18:37

JoyousOpalTurtle · 20/03/2025 13:39

IAPT is designed to treat common mental health problems (you can find the list online: depression, GAD, OCD, PTSD, panic disorder, several others), however having a diagnosis of an SMI doesn't preclude someone from IAPT intervention as long as their presenting problem and symptoms is one of the disorders they treat, rather than symptoms of their SMI. Suicidal ideation isn't a barrier, however the presence of plans/intent does mean someone isn't suitable for IAPT.

If someone's presenting problem is their SMI or personality disorder they fall under secondary care services, or primary care hubs which have come into force in some areas of the country.

Lots of people claiming PIP and stating they're unable to work are saying it's due to depression and anxiety, which does fall under IAPT. People with SMI whose symptoms are still very much florid will need treatment for something IAPT doesn't offer.

Risk of self harm isn't a concern, if it is not "dangerous", lots of people self harm, it's a part of so many mental health problems and a way a lot of people manage distress.

It's a shame there is such misconception out there about what NHS mental health services do and what's available.

Edited

Show quote history

That may be the ideal but in practice where I live IAPT providers do exclude many people. Of course you can 'self refer' but you are then 'signposted to an appropriate service' after the assessment - usually to GP or a&e
There are several different providers in my area & I cannot access talking therapy through any of them.
I am fortunate that I receive treatment from a specialist national service but please don't be under any illusion that IAPT is available to all.

OonaStubbs · 20/03/2025 18:45

We can't afford to carry on as a nation as we have been doing. People need to realise that they are responsible for working to sustain themselves and their families.

FuckssakeMulder · 20/03/2025 19:16

JoyousOpalTurtle · 20/03/2025 13:39

IAPT is designed to treat common mental health problems (you can find the list online: depression, GAD, OCD, PTSD, panic disorder, several others), however having a diagnosis of an SMI doesn't preclude someone from IAPT intervention as long as their presenting problem and symptoms is one of the disorders they treat, rather than symptoms of their SMI. Suicidal ideation isn't a barrier, however the presence of plans/intent does mean someone isn't suitable for IAPT.

If someone's presenting problem is their SMI or personality disorder they fall under secondary care services, or primary care hubs which have come into force in some areas of the country.

Lots of people claiming PIP and stating they're unable to work are saying it's due to depression and anxiety, which does fall under IAPT. People with SMI whose symptoms are still very much florid will need treatment for something IAPT doesn't offer.

Risk of self harm isn't a concern, if it is not "dangerous", lots of people self harm, it's a part of so many mental health problems and a way a lot of people manage distress.

It's a shame there is such misconception out there about what NHS mental health services do and what's available.

Edited

Show quote history

That not how IAPT works in my city. They do not accept anyone with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, bipolar or EUPD.

I have bipolar disorder and severe anxiety. I have been unable to get help for my anxiety as IAPT won’t accept me due to my diagnosis and secondary care won’t accept me as I’m not unwell enough.

There are many people with SMI like me that fall through the gaps in provision available. We are left without help until we become extremely unwell.

(There is supposed to me a new service opening at some point in my city for people like me with SMI that can’t access secondary care. Its a bit shit to just be left with nothing in the meantime though).

WiddlinDiddlin · 20/03/2025 19:27

something2say · 25/09/2024 21:20

Stop panicking. It may not affect you.

FWIW I worked in one place where one lady received £1600 pcm and spent it all on stuff that later had to be donated. Her disability qualified her, but her actual need was for a part time voluntary job as she was lonely for people, not stuff.

I then worked somewhere else where one man was in a wheelchair and couldn't tolerate any interaction or he would self harm until he bled. He absolutely doesn't need £1600 of the taxpayers money each month.

Hopefully people like this will be re means assessed. Along with those who receive that amount, never spend it and regularly get benefits cut off because it gets saved and they go over the threshold....

WTF?

So this lady was assessed as needing all sorts of things - a condition does not qualify anyone, it is how that disability affects you that does.

Presumably she was not actually given any help to access the things she needed - care, cleaners, access to social groups etc, so just spent it on stuff.

Or was her assessment wrong and she wasn't actually disabled by her conditions? And where does this 1600 come from, I get max. PIP for both elements, I do not recieve 1600 via PIP (some months I may get more than that with PIP and UC combined, depends on how much I've worked, but never via PIP alone!).

Are you seriously suggesting that people with existing current awards would be re-assessed, as that would be an enormous cost particularly given the DWP have a HUGE backlog of people already waiting for reassessment, new claims, changes of circumstance. There are still adults on DLA who haven't been migrated to PIP yet!