Labour PIP benefit cuts

[Stickytoffeepudding6]

Can someone help me please?

I'm absolutely spiraling. I've just read up about the Labour conference and everything about PIP reforms.

I'm absolutely panicking. I feel like giving up. I'm on PIP with mental health.

I do work. Part time.

Yet again you are unable to substantiate your allegation. My posts are there and are ample evidence of what I said. "Rowing back" on the other hand appears to be a skill you're honing quite effectively. Anyway, I wish you a pleasant evening. I think I'm going to do something more productive than pass the time arguing with someone who persists in alleging someone said something they didn't say.

Well I wasn't going to bother scrolling back but you asked so many times I did, posted below

That post doesn't substantiate what you alleged that I said. You really are scraping the barrel there.

I think your post shows your views pretty well. They would be moaning whatever

Not exactly I'm concerned for pensioners on basic state pension. I mean if you meant to post that it's a bit far off.

Interpret it how you like. I'm sure you will anyway. I made it clear that I think the threshold is too low. To aid your comprehension, I meant that if the cut off point was higher (as it should be) well off pensioners who still missed out would still complain. I never said what you alleged I said. However I fully expect that you'll persist in claiming that I did.

I am presuming that governments do this to test the media response, or to guage how successful their ideaspolicies could possibly be, so they don't appear to resemble a bunch of clowns dangling upside down from the same trapeze.

They may decide not to go ahead with their latest decision for PIP, so wait and see what happens, you may not need to panic.

Tories basically halved the threshold for families receiving free school meals and free prescriptions and the right wing press basically let it slide.

Labour suggest that we shouldn’t give rich people money to heat their houses and they lose their shit.

You do know it's not just rich people?

Unless you count a pensioner on under £12k as rich of course

Plus the focus on it being 'right wing press' ignores The Guardian, unions and charities saying the same

Here's Age UK

Charity believes c.2 million older people on low incomes or who are otherwise vulnerable are set to lose the Payment if it is means-tested and fears many will suffer hardship as a result
Age UK launches new national campaignn_ to defend them

Comment was for brevity. It should have been means tested from day 1.

@something2say PIP is NOT means tested

It’s disappointing, after 14 years of being demonised by the Tory government, that Labour isn’t making a break with that tradition.

I'd like Labour to make a start on cost saving closer to home. Scrap subsidised restaurants and bars in the houses of Parliament. Let our greedy politicians pay their own lunch and drinks bill at regular London prices. Also end their ridiculous expenses allowances. They work just as we do but we pay our own travel and food bills.

Why can't they bring legislation to force energy companies to give a winter fuel discount to elderly?

It must be ace having a job where you barely touch your pay and get the best of food, drinks etc for next to nothing.

I think the problem with fraud is that the government again doesn’t have the money to spend basically using private investigators to track reported possible fraud.

They go the for easy ones. Caught out by a news article or in the papers, evidence sent with cold hard proof photos/videos with links to the wide open social media. Slam dunk cases where it costs only a persons few hours wages.

They have no interested in following Karen to see if she does go to the bingo and Toby alone despite claiming she can not leave her house without a chaperone.

Nothing to stop anyone standing for public office if they fancy the job.

The problem with fraud is that no government will admit that benefit fraud is mostly carried out by large criminal gangs and not individuals. That disability benefit fraud effectively comes in at 0% because it’s so low. That there’s an issue with benefit underpayment and errors made by the DWP.
The problem with fraud is that a section of society is happy to see benefit claimants demonised and quick to invent silly stories about their neighbour who doesn’t really have anxiety or a bad back.

I'm sympathetic, but the government really has no alternative but to revisit disability benefits- the cost has spiralled by about 400% since Covid.
Practically all the increase is for mental health reasons, everyone went through lockdown and all the stresses , so potentially anyone could claim-and looking at the figures this is what has happened.
Disability benefits have always been more generous than out of work benefits, and are therefore more attractive.
I would not be surprised if the whole idea of paying more for disability is revisited, people with disabilities, physical or mental do not usually need more money than the simply unemployed.
It will be unpopular, but that is to be expected- I'm not sure a case can be made that so many more people are now unable to work because of mental health issues than 5 years ago- this increase has not been seen in other countries.

"people with disabilities, physical or mental do not usually need more money than the simply unemployed"

We don't? Have you seen the cost of equipment or care? And then there's the increased bills. And paying for care

Scopes own research suggests that we pay an extra £1000 a month because we're disabled.

Yes, disabled people do need more money to survive. Including people with severe mental health issues, who need a support worker etc. They don't get given care for free, they have to pay for it.

There are also miriads of other reasons a disabled person (physical, mental or learning disability) may need more money for an equal quality of life that isn't related directly to care.

Anyone who doesn't see why should play a game with themselves. Pick a condition. Look at the symptoms (in detail). Then have a good think about how experiencing those symptoms might impact your life and what you currently are able to do. Then think about what it might cost for care or a helper/equipment/different items/addition bills. There you go. That's how you put yourself in someone else's shoes.

That depends on the disability- we were mostly talking about rise in claiming for mental health reasons, also figures like that are derived from the disability lobby, which to be honest is unlikely to give a dispassionate view.

Someone with poor mental health may well need to pay for private treatment, as the NHS offering is pretty minimal / long waiting lists.

Even if they “just” need therapy / counselling beyond what the NHS provides, at about £60/hour plus whatever it costs to get there, that’s pretty much taken up most of the standard rate PIP.

I think this is a really positive move. It's sadly the case that a lot of people have written themselves off and chucked themselves on the scrap heap, throwing their hands up and saying 'I can't work ever' and then expecting to coast along indefinitely.

There are people that absolutely need that support, and I hope the reforms does a better job of differentiating so the support is there for those who need it, and people who don't are encouraged to re-engage with society.

Work is good for your health, activity and achievement boosts self-esteem, meeting others helps you feel closer to others and part of something. Work isn't really optional, but it's seen as optional amongst huge parts of the country.

I know a lot of people won't like it, and it will feel a bit scary and new for a while, but in the long run I think a lot of people will be glad. Those who say 'there's no support there!', our local Talking Therapies service (used to be called IAPT, they're all over the country) has a team of therapists delivering mental health treatment (with the waiting list being less than six months for all treatments, often a lot less) and also a team of employment advisors that support people with all kinds of job things like applying for jobs, writing CVs, interview skills, accessing funds for clothing and transport, liaising with employers about reasonable adjustments, educating on workplace rights, and many other things.

Unfortunately giving someone longterm open ended indefinite benefits and saying 'you're right, you can't possibly be expected to work' sends the message to that person that they're useless and can't contribute or be productive. Tell someone they can't do something and it often becomes true. That's not fair to anyone.

Also I saw something about how jobseekers allowance might be time-limited and based on contributions and not as low as a result? I think that's fantastic. As it stands if I lost my job I'd get a paltry amount, despite having never claimed benefits before other than child benefit, despite having paid taxes and NI for two decades.

I have a long term progressive disability that leaves me in severe chronic pain on a daily basis, and need a lot of medication to function. I'm also as lefty and liberal as they come. I'm actually impressed by the Labour government tackling this head on. I didn't think they had it in them.

But you can claim pip and work

The implications of this are massive.

When someone loses their PIP, their carer loses their carer's allowance and would be treated as a jobseeker for benefit purposes. The "cared for person" would be left to their own devices while their former carer was at work/looking for work.

A lot of claimants have to use some of their PIP (and LCWRA component of UC) to top up their rent, because of the failure to increase local housing allowance rates in line with actual rent.

People under-35 who get PIP are exempt from the rule that caps the housing element of UC at the shared housing rate, they will lose another big chunk of money in addition to the loss of PIP and LCWRA.

Some people stand to lose over £800 a month. Not many people can afford to lose that much money without a considerable degree of hardship.

I'm really worried about the implications of this for a lot of my clients. All my clients have MH issues, many have other health problems as well. They will be absolutely terrified. The proposals seem to be targetting the mentally unwell and will impact them very significantly.

However, I suspect that this may turn out to be another of those things where a government makes a proposal that seems very harsh, creates a hue and cry, then waters it down so that they can claim they've listened and taken on board people's views while achieving exactly what they wanted in the first place.

I just hope I'm right.