Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

They are willing to pay for education with their own time and money when needed, making huge sacrifices. And the students work harder and do more practise papers for exams.

Generally, as a brown person I was pushed much harder than my friends. My parents grew up in an environment where education was still a privilege, so you were expected to make the most of the opportunity.

They come from cultures that really value education. British culture generally does not. Many teachers here will confirm that parental attitudes are a huge obstacle - if parents are telling their children they don’t need to do their homework or listen to the teacher, there’s no hope.

Too much focus on over achieving means stressed out kids who don't get a childhood because they need to be studying or achieving something, otherwise it's seen as not worth doing. Pushy parents want a return on investment.

I guess that's important if money is your only measure of success. Personally i would rather my children be happy.

As a 30 year old mixed ethnicity woman (black, Asian and Mediterranean but no religion and very much British culture, born and raised here) I was still told that I had to work harder than white people to achieve even the same or less goals. That influenced my attitude somewhat.

Education was framed as a privilege and duty rather than a chore. My parents did reading and homework with us everyday but also encouraged play and social so it wasn't extreme.

Poor behaviour wasn't tolerated, and god forbid we got into trouble at school. My parents never undermined teachers in front of me even when they disagreed, which I'm only learning now! They had separate meetings/conversations. My parents never hit me or anything at all like that, but there were actual consequences that were followed through even when it was hard for them.

The children often achieve well because they have given up time doing things that white kids do like sport, hanging out with friends etc There needs to be a balance of fun and achieving academics, not simply dragon parenting into straight top grades.

Yanbu. It's about valuing education and ambition and high expectations of children.

I will count my children as successful if they grow up to be generous adults who contribute to society and who lead happy lives with meaningful relationships.

My measure of success is not to ruin their childhoods by overworking them and making them stressed, just so they can be richer.

I think its more complex than that. If by uk you mean the group White English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish, some people within that category are doing really well.

People often talk about white British boys not doing well, but they really mean under-resourced white boys.

Parents from those cultures really value education as the mechanism for a good life. They work hard, they expect their children to work hard, and they know from experience they need to be twice as good to be given the same opportunities as white British people. So their children know what is expected of them from a young age.

I think families who have taken the bold step to move to another country are likely to be brighter and more ambitious.

Is this comparing immigrant families with families in their birth country?

If you are eager to move to a completely new country for better opportunities, it follows you will be motivated to push your children to take full advantage of this opportunities.

There is a fine balance between supportive and overbearing... and I think on the whole many British parents hold back a bit too much so as not to go over that line... or they go to far.

Only a few posts in and this thread already demonstrates why - posters correlating achieving academically with being miserable. I’d rather my child be happy than high achieving - but that doesn’t mean there is no expectation that he works hard and tries his best. His best will look different to anyone else’s. He’s happy - he has hours and hours of downtime every week (usually screens, puzzles and books), does a few extra curriculars, and still manages to do extra learning at home.

Parenting!

I have several friends and colleagues from first-gen or second-gen immigrant families where the expectations of them are / were very high. It was these kids at school who were doing extra maths at the weekend, whose families seemed to drum up school fees as a priority, whose parents dictated what they could study.

I would say - not all of them have the best relationship with their parents now, as I think the environment could be quite severe / their own personal interests were always secondary.

I think there’s some positive in it - my parents went down the ‘whatever makes you happy ‘ route and are surprised we aren’t as successful as some of their friends kids (who lived under the regime above).

The south korean kids i knew growing up did great at school but their mum (from SK) was a total tiger mum. The pressure they had on them to achieve was immense, and if I ever (rarely) scored higher on a test I got the silent treatment. Thier mum would ask what their friends scored and woe betide them if they weren’t top.

As above, these cultures really value education and it is considered a privilege to have access to one, not a chore. The families are willing to sacrifice lifestyle at the expense of giving their children the best education possible. They also have the utmost respect for schools and educators.

We have also been brought up with the knowledge that we need to fight twice as hard as a white person for the same opportunity or job - the privilege is very much still there no matter how one may try argue otherwise.

In my experience, it is not about sacrificing a child’s social life/sport or them being miserable to achieve high grades. It is about knowing deep down you have truly done your best

I would agree with this.

My parents, mum in particular, had very high expectations for me when I was growing up. She would have probably be laughed at for being pushy by most of MN and told that her "child will resent her and not want a relationship when older". However, I achieved much more academically than my natural ability suggests I should have and have had a much easier career and adulthood as a result. I also have the confidence of knowing that if I really push myself I can do stuff, even when it's difficult. I have had to learn when to apply that mindset to not burn out, but I wouldn't swap the work ethic my upbringing has given me for the world.

My DH on the other hand is from a more typical MN family of "sure education is important, but so is having fun and family time and, and, and". He was never made to do homework, in fact I don't think he parents never really knew if he had any. They never taught him academic concepts out of school and his school was a very relaxed, hippy vibe. He had a really uncomfortable feeling years at uni and early career, because he had never learnt how to apply knowledge or think things through himself. He's probably brighter than me in many respects, but gives up on ideas so easily unless I push him through.

White working class boys have the lowest attainment level in the UK, it is worse among those from single parent households. How do we build in a value for education among people who generationally don't value education and see figures of authority as people not to be trusted?

Statistically, the kind of tiger parenting required to achieve the academic success seen results in poorer psychological well-being outcomes for children and young people.

I just feel with Labour removing the choice from parents who can barely afford to pay private education we can look to our Asian heritage compatriats & see what they are doing with their children to ensure they are achieving so well. Many attend state school & are flying so is it possible for us to emulate?

I know plenty of Indian & Asian people who I went to school with who have not outperformed the white British kids I went to school with. In fact from my year (which was very ethnically diverse) I know multiple white British people who are now doctors, lawyers and professors, but I can’t say that of my non British school friends. I’d say they’ve had way more challenges to overcome than my white friends, and my Korean friends were pushed way way harder than the rest of us (and they rebelled and went off the rails).

This has got nothing to do with Labour. Or is this a stealth private school fees thread?

I live in a grammar school area and the area has almost completely changed to Asian majority so they can get their children into the best schools. If you go past the schools at leaving time they are almost at white minority levels. I'm not saying this is a bad thing just an example of how education is treated differently in different cultures.

Labour closing all the grammar schools down hasn't helped. It's just concentrated excellent schools into smaller pockets or the country.

It’s cultural. High expectations, high work ethic, respect for teachers and schools, lap up any extra help or intervention. There is no secret ingredient.

Lots of the white middle class families are the opposite. Entitled, no respect for teachers, looking to blame the school, can’t see why they have to work hard.

There are obviously students and families that do not fit this mould but generally speaking this has been my experience.