Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

My son attends a language school at the weekends (Spanish) he is one of the only white kids in his group, the others are Nigerian, Chinese, South Asian & Indian. It seems to be one of multiple actives these kids do on a Saturday.

@Name972 i would say that we need to place value (as a society) on different types of education and being able to switch between them at multiple stages.

A-levels etc are seen as the goal but really what use are a-levels to someone who’s going to be a gardener or a postman? Better to focus on a broader range; such as woodwork, cooking, even more “life skills” type subjects, which would appeal more to this demographic.

I know the grammar/secondary modern system has a lot of issues but I think this mostly stems from the fact that children are sorted one way or the other at 10. Why not check again at 12 and 14 and see if a different approach would suit them better further down the line?

Children from families who can almost afford private school will be fine whichever school they go to. It’s the children who grow up in low-income families who should be the focus so that they can fulfil their potential and break the cycle of poverty.

They do well because they know the value of education, and appreciate where it is free, making their kids work hard.
Similarly parents with kids in paid-for education genrrslly support and push their kids
Brits otoh, are happy to pull their kids out of school for a holiday to Torremolenas because 'it's educational (cheap) innit?'

In our school EAL pupils (English as an additional language) have the best attendance which does seem to correlate with attainment. I have huge admiration for migrants who are supportive and aspirational for their children, high attendance is the first step. My son's best friend was from Portugal and his mum one of the dinner ladies at his school. He always did his homework, attended maths club, she was asking me about extra work in lockdown and he was in all the top sets probably as a consequence.

I agree. Kids mature at different rates, it would be good to have flex and ability to transfer at years 7, 9 and 11.

It's not right to remove choice from parents, the government cannot say what way we educate our children, it should always be parental choice.

My point is the Asian parents will continue to parent & educate as they are, ours won't be able to compete so I think we need to raise our expectations of our children.

I worked on educational publications for many years and one article I edited that stuck with me suggested English speakers are kind of hampered by having a really illogical language made up of lots of others that has loads of rule exceptions, weird spellings etc. So it may be that reading, writing and spelling is simply harder to pick up for Anglophone kids compared to languages that are more rule-led.

There's some degree of cultural elements as well though, yes.

Discipline and respect. They parent their children instead of trying to be their friends.

Stop othering people. The goal should be all children have fair access to all systems of education and fair access to improving their lot in life which includes fair access to grammar schools so they are not just for the few but for all.

It's kinda obvious that these parents value education and hard work and push their children accordingly. They also are strict and have discipline.

I assume (though I am open to be wrong) that these teens are also less likely to engage in drinking, smoking, drugs because their parents quite rightly reach them that these things are wrong.

I completely agree with the gammer system & private schooling. I'm not "othering" anything. All children have a right to education, parents have a right to choose that education, not the state.

Same here.

My dad drilled into us that each generation should do better than the last and that their parents should prepare and support them the best they can.

My teachers and parents were a team, open communication and learning wasn’t just at school. Grew up going to free museums (art and history) and science centres, was taken to plays at 4/5, paid extra for tv with educational channels, reading and learning, community service/charity work was seen as something you do, balanced with going outside after homework and making sure to be home before the lights came on.

Being a bookworm or seen as clever wasn’t seen as a bad thing.

When the history of your ancestors involves laws where teaching you to read and write was illegal, education is going to be pretty high on the totem pole.

The Government completely decides how children are educated. The concept of school and universal education is a very recent invention and wouldn’t exist without the Government directing and supporting it. Homeschooling exists, but allowing it is also a Government decision (it is not legal in all countries).

I was a high-achieving student - mixed-race (part Asian). It's not as cut and dried as some of the stereotypical explanations.

Asian parents pushing their kids academically is definitely true. I actually don't know a single chld of Asian immigrants (across the UK, US and Canada!) who wasn't expected to get top marks. I didn't have nearly as bad a tiger mum as some others I know but helpfully for my parents all the expectations and pressure came from within by the time I was 11 anyway.

Maybe you can ascribe that to "culture" but in an immigrant context there's also the fact that I knew I needed to get top marks, not mid-range marks, in order to be taken half as seriously as my white peers. Getting top marks was my only hope of getting away from where I grew up and making the life I wanted for myself. "You need to work twice as hard to be taken half as seriously" is a lesson every non-white child in this country knows; it's hammered home by their parents and even if that doesn't sink in, life will swiftly let you know about it.

Having said all the above I don't think any of that is healthy. Asian kids who aren't naturally academic go through hell failing to live up to expectations, and woe betide them if they decide that they want to do something artistic or vocational with their life (which I eventually did). The happiness of the child and respect for them as an individual doesn't factor into any of the above (or at least it's framed as future happiness, dependent only on a stable high income). Being motivated by unfair treatment isn't healthy either, it's an indictment of racism in British society and I'd rather I hadn't been shaped by that.

In terms of whether you white parents can learn anything from it? It's a mix of you can't and you shouldn't. You can't replicate the lack of privilege non-white immigrants have - your kids will be able to coast and still succeed in a way we can't. You should enjoy that, because I always envied it. And if you'd rather your child was happy than high-earning or high-achieving, I envy that even more.

Unsurprising plot twist is that I'm NC with my parents, and much of the above is to blame.

I instill the value of education in my children, and that is important. They do have a tutor once a week and they do always do their homework

But having seen the severe unhappiness of my cousins (from one of the backgrounds you listed) who were pushed incredibly hard I would never aspire to that for my children.

Academic and professional success shouldn't come at the expense of mental health

I can’t find the source but I’m sure I’ve heard several times over the years that parents reading aloud to their children and their children continuing to read for pleasure is a bigger predictor of future success than whether the child goes to a private school or not. The point being that what you do at home and your family culture is more indicative of success (however you frame ‘success’) than which school they go to.

Unfortunately money is a key aspect of happiness. My husband’s circle are all under achievers despite being very very intelligent, with no solid careers etc., and unfortunately that translates into a lot of unhappiness in their 30s and 40s.

It's definitely Autumn isn't it? Peak time for MN threads slating the British.

None of us value education

We all go on holiday in term time to Spain, where, according to another thread, we are despised (but only the English as the Scots, Welsh and Irish are universally loved).

We can't parent our children and just want to be their friends.

They are all taking drugs and drinking themselves silly as teenagers.

Do any of you actually have children, because my two teenage DC and their friends would no doubt surprise you if you met them.

All state school educated, and with great GCSE and A level results, hobbies, friends and part time jobs. Oh, and they're quite happy too.

Sorry what? Education isn't valued in a country that is world renowned for it's quality of education and is home to two of the top three universities across the world.

The British education system has historically valued artistic, musical and intellectual subjects but the are not lesser and often these studies are looking at the Academic subjects like the sciences and Maths.

I imagine if you went to India or China you would find quite a few low achieving children. People who emigrate tend to be aspirational as they looking to improve their life and are therefore more going to be more ambitious for their children.

There's so much pressure on immigrant families, like having a law degree but having to work as a cleaner. You have to work harder and your children have to work harder to one day achieve the level of laziness as say a middle class white child whose parents can afford to help them buy a house because they can be a lawyer with their degree and not a cleaner. Also it's a very self selecting ambitious group, just like most English immigrants in another country are likely to find a private school and push their children there.

Do you not want your children to be financially secure?

I'd understand not overloading on the extracurriculars for no reason. But I'd want my children to do well in school.

This

Parental education level predicts success for children, among other things. The average migrant to the UK is more likely to be degree-educated than someone born there.