Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

So Asian and European children aren't happy? What did you put on your coco pops this morning 😂

I am Indian and so is DH. Huge emphasis on education and not being dependent on the state. My parents were not my friends. Glad they weren't. I still had a happy childhood.

I have zero complaints about my upbringing and am close to my parents. So is DH.

I was a little more relaxed with my DC and let them stray from the accepted professions of doctor lawyer engineer finance bod. They now tell me I should have been harder on them and been more Tiger mum. They both have firsts though.

I might add that the emphasis on education is because it's harder for us to get ahead. It's not a return on investment. It's also harder for Asians to be in certain professions like the arts. It's not just about pushy parents.

@Lentilweaver - but how can you "let them" choose other professions? I listen to my DC and encourage them to consider different aspects of future study and career choices but it's not up to me or DH to "let them" do anything when they are adults.

As austerity increasingly grips & bites here I think we’ll find education is taken more seriously in the next couple of decades.

It's not all UK/US kids though is it? There are plenty of schools and families where education is valued.

I was brought up like this and hopefully have brought up my kids the same way. School is important and non-negotiable. They are not kept off school for spurious reasons, never taken out of school for holidays. Bad behaviour is never laughed at, never condoned. If the teacher has shouted at them, it's probably something they've done! They are expected to try their very best and give it their all - this is not always the same as achieving highly.

There is a huge sub-culture of school being pointless, a waste of time, for mugs. I was at a shitty comp and was bullied for wanting to do my homework and answer in class.

Is there even a point to being overly academic now? Most jobs will be gone to AI anyway.

Because everyone in my entire family is a doctor or an engineer.
Hard to explain on MN really or to anyone unfamiliar with Asian culture.
There are also expectations in Asian families, which is why we need the money. My DC stay with me rent free for instance. So will my mum eventually. So it goes both ways.

That's the issue in a nutshell.

Well put @Name972 .

Well this is my topic as a BBC a British born Chinese.

Laziness is just not tolerated and there is also respect for elders. My parents were much stricter than any of my white friends parents. This is now diluted in my own parenting as white liberal DH had less strict attitudes. But DS upbringing was still much stricter than his friends. There is also the cultural pressure of losing face. DS told me his friend actually said after exam results came in I wish my parents had been stricter. What he was talking about was gaming. DS likes gaming, but during exam time I removed his gaming system as he wouldn’t self regulate. He hated me with a burning passion. He got all top grades at GCSE and A level. Now he has matured he is fine and understands. British parents worry far too much about their children liking them too much. It’s a pretty blunt culture as well especially as my lot are Hong Kong Chinese.

There is also not anywhere near as much alcohol consumption in Asian cultures either. I mean many can’t tolerate alcohol due to Asian blush as we lack an enzyme in our bodies. If I drink two drinks I am very drunk and feel ill. Read up on it, it’s quite fascinating.

My DS went to a poorly performing state school. He is now on a degree apprenticeship on 32k PA not a bad wage for someone who hasn’t even graduated yet.

My Grandparents fled mainland China and my Aunt died during this flight from the Japanese, we owe our ancestors that suffered greatly and endured awful hardships in my opinion. My parents ran a Chinese restaurant. Those refugees grandchildren became a research pharmacist, chemical engineer, academic librarian and nurse. Great grandchildren so far have both gone in to medical research.

@Keenrower in a nutshell we do what our parents tell us.

@Lentilweaver - my family also has Doctors, teachers, Allied Health Professionals but that doesn't mean my DC should automatically choose that path. In fact after 40 years in the NHS my DH took a sharp in take of breath when one DC was talking about a career in healthcare.

As a brown parent I guess it’s just a priority to me (inculcated as a child as pp pointed out that education is a privilege). We do have very high expectations for her, why would we have low ones? She may not be able to meet them because she doesn’t have the ability and I would never make her feel bad for that. But if it’s through a lack of effort then yes that would be a problem. I was definitely taught that life is can be very hard on you, there was an expectation that you are going to have to make your own way in life so best get your head down. The worst thing that could happen is that you would be on benefits, thats not intended to shame anyone but to give you a picture of expectations.

I resent the idea here that asian parents tiger parent their kids to the exclusion of anything else. Most of us do care that our children are happy and are having fulfilling lives. Mine does a variety of sports 6 times a week (energetic kid) and I’ve had weekends booked up since the start of term with parties/playdates/shows. Most of what we do at home takes about 40 minutes, 20 minutes of reading (she started school several years ahead on reading, took 20 minutes 5 days a week for a year so not onerous by any means) 20 minutes of handwriting practice. We never do anything on the weekends, those are entirely for r&r. A lot of it doesn’t just involve money it involves your own time and effort. We play games that have dice so she can add small numbers herself, monopoly, cards, draughts (DH going to start teaching her to play chess).

I absolutely see teachers as part of the network of support for her, they are not the enemy and luckily she’s had some amazing teachers who have been extremely encouraging towards her through nursery to reception. We are extremely grateful for that. We don’t fuss about things like the school uniform, it’s not worth the investment of mental energy etc, if it’s not important it’s not a priority.

I would also agree immigrants are self selecting, most people in my family who immigrated did so between the 60’s and 80’s. Back when it was pretty tough to be an ethnic minority and you couldn’t pop home frequently because you couldn’t afford to travel, even if you had a decent education you were likely to end up in low skilled work. People wanted better for their kids. I saw a comedian once talk about why asian parents like things like “doctor, lawyer” etc. he pointed out that if you are new to a country becoming a doctor for example equals instant respectability and a secure job. I think that was quite accurate.

I acknowledge that there are some who put a lot of pressure on their kids, but most of us have found a happy medium.

I took away my DS gaming console too. He was furious. but not when he got good grades.

These sweeping generalisations are ridiculous, parents being your friends/not strict = poor outcomes, not piling on the pressure to be in top groups for Maths and the Sciences= poor outcomes, not putting pressure on extra curricular as distracts from the homework for academic subjects= good outcome.

In reality, the British Creative Industry is worth billions and brings in more revenue than Cars, Oil and Gas. I had parents that very much valued, 'Education' but this included the Arts and Humanities as did many of my friends and my DH's whose family have done very well out of the Arts!

Oh and my parents were liberal and not strict and tbh were pretty much my friends by late teens, nothing bad has happened and I've done very well indeed, if we are basing that on the usual credentials!

Really? Really?

My Dd chose her passion against my advice and now regrets it as there are no jobs. She is now returning to a conventional career for her masters.

There is a huge sub-culture of school being pointless, a waste of time, for mugs. I was at a shitty comp and was bullied for wanting to do my homework and answer in class.

I agree with the premise of the thread. I taught English in an east Asian country and as an untrained person on barely more than a gap year, I was afforded huge respect by the parents and accordingly, their children.

By contrast, my own educational upbringing was like the PP quoted, and I went to a good state school. I also see massive amounts of disdain, scorn and distrust for teachers/schools from my naice MC colleagues. They may say they value education but they don't seem to value those providing it. Their kids are always getting in trouble but it's always the teachers' fault.

I also want to point out we aren’t one dimensional math people who only switch on for chemistry exams. Asian people do read, we look at art, we go to the theatre, we talk about politics (not all obviously). We also want to share that with our children.

It’s a cultural thing. Lots of Asian and Indian children have advantages at home that British working class children (particularly boys) do not get. This has been reported on previously.

Chinese and Indian parents don't do "soft" parenting.

They really won't, that idea is just hype on the part of AI boosters. Some jobs will be different but the basic skills of literacy, numeracy, communication etc will always be needed and valued.

I am crap at math and have a huge interest in art, theatre and film. So do my DC. It would be foolish of me to advise my DD that she has the same chances of being an actress as Lily James did. Of course things are changing. But they haven't changed that much.

I think it's fairly severe in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, China & Japan with tuition centres & long after school tuition, coming home to do homework at 9pm... I think it's harder over there!

Parents who prioritise education and push their children to be successful. It tends to be those who had to struggle to get an education themselves, potentially because they were discriminated against - they are more fervent about getting the best for their children.

My son attends a grammar (we are white British). His school & the other grammar in the area has a pretty even split of ethnicities which is not seen in the local state schools.(vast majority white British) A lot of children travel a fair distance to attend the grammar schools as well.