Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

Im likely to offend here but the white privilege in this post is showing. As an Asian person I was pushed hard to succeed and I aim high for my kids (whatever their ability is, I don't accept anything less than their best). Non white people don't have stable base in this country to relax and that what will be will be. we have to work harder. Society isn't kind to us, people don't doff their caps to us.

Eastern European here, and I want my children to be the best versions of themselves - both personally and professionally. I know what they are capable of educationally, so why would I be ok with them not aiming for that?

I expect good grades in the subjects they can get good grades in, and I will let them know if they don't work hard enough and the grades show it. I love them, I praise them a lot, and they always have my support, but they also know that I expect a lot from them because I believe in their abilities. Ambition is not a bad thing, aiming for excellence is not a bad thing either.

Which post? Or do you mean the thread title?

When you assess and speak to a patient in the MH setting (as I have done for over 10 years), socioeconomic background is discussed. My knowledge is from first hand clinical experience, not trawling through records. I am still not claiming my experience is replicated everywhere in the country.

You - on the other hand - are quoting apparent correlations without having met a patient, seen a record or stepped foot in a clinical setting. You are also extrapolating statistics with no context.

You are in no position to comment at all, let alone attack other posters for making more educated observations than yours

There’s a fair amount of research to back that sentiment:
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/statistics/poverty-statistics
Children (and adults) are two to three times more likely to suffer mental health issues - when coming from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds.

The Chinese education system is brutal, and not something I'm sure we should be emulating.

That poster appears to be basing their speculative comments on emotion and personal experience, which is hardly much basis for such comments. Adults and children from disadvantaged backgrounds are 2-3 times more likely to suffer mental health issues. Money is most certainly linked to attainment and health (of all types).

Any alleged MH practitioner who is ignoring the MH crisis amongst the young that is happening across the board concerning many whilst snobbily saying only the lowest socioeconomic groups struggle with this have no position to comment at all.

I remember a 2015 documentary something about Chinese teachers using their Chinese school teaching methods in a year 9 school. The students taught by the Chinese method did get better grades

I'm Asian and ‘benefited’ from an education focused upbringing, was a high achiever and have had a good career. However the downside is educational performance was the only thing valued or encouraged by my parents, as long as I was top of the class everything was fine for them. For example I remember my report card being all As, apart from something like history or RE, subjects I didn’t enjoy or have any interest in, I didn’t get any praise for the good grades (that was expected) but I got a grilling over why I was so ‘bad’ at history (it wasn’t even like I was failing). They didn’t really take any interest in/encourage any of my interests outside of academic achievement and I didn’t get much from them in the emotional support side of things nor did I learn how to cope with failure. Failing at anything would have been like the end of the world with them.

This is probably going to trigger some frothing but here goes: immigrants, and even more so their children, don’t know what it’s like to grow up “at home”. They don’t have the luxury of feeling everything’s going to be ok like it was for my great-grandpa, this is my world, these are my people, I’m fine just the way I am however that is. They can’t think that they have an innate right to anything (even if they have legal and moral rights). They can’t think “take me as I am, I’m just as good as you, take me or leave me”. They are always different, always on the outside, never know the luxury of not having to justify yourself - because they’re never “at home”. They simply don’t have the luxury of a mindset that allows for a “teachers can’t tell you what to do, if they do you just tell me and I’ll tell them where to go”. They know what would happen if they did.

They need to build a foundation and history for themselves. And, as has been said many times already, they need to work twice as hard to get half as far. Nobody who goes through that remains unaffected. It gets passed down the generations, especially given how little changes in terms of racism. In times of paucity/austerity, resources are spread even more thinly and the lowest rung sinks even lower and the fighting gets more vicious. So, they work. They push hard, just to stay standing.

I will never forget the day my opposite neighbour, an Asian eye surgeon in his 50s back then, was spat at by a white yob and called the n-word because he dared toot his horn to get the yob to move from where he was parked in front of his dropped kerb. I was a young girl and it’s stuck with me ever since. The sheer entitlement of that yob, in the face of a highly educated Moorfields doctor twice his age. All he had to do was throw his whiteness in this neighbour’s face. All that education and achievement still didn’t protect him from such disgusting treatment. Of course he pushed his boys hard at school and university (yes they’re both doctors). If an oik like that can get away with such behaviour, what are your options?

Immigrants generally NEED to work that much harder for stability and security. It’s not a given. That insecurity is inside you all the time, because you’re living outside your home all the time. It’s nothing special to the U.K. or the US.

I agree with you.

Personally I feel mental health numbers are soaring due to unrestricted screens & social media for children with western backgrounds.. Bullying, uncensored content & lack of sleep all contributing.

Exactly. I am white and my parents were probably more like the cultures you've referenced when it comes to the importance of education. I did lots of extra curricular activities alongside, but they were all things I was encouraged to do well at and apply my all to. Both myself and my sister are now high earning professionals with strong academics. I'm very happy. I'd be a lot less happy if I was as impacted by the cost of living as my peers are. I'm thankful I was encouraged to have a jam packed schedule as a kid and work hard at every opportunity. Now things others find hard feel like a breeze and I feel I have a great work life balance and manage to squeeze so much more into my time than most of my peers appear to, who complain about not having enough time to get everything done alongside low level time commitment jobs. I'm very thankful. I will do the same with my kids.

Yes I value happiness over academic or professional success - however, by doing what they did, my parents have given me skills, strong academics and time management to enable me to have great flexibility of choice than my peers in the work I do and what I earn. Money may not buy happiness but I've never had to worry about choosing to pay a bill or buy my kids shoes for school, I don't have to worry about checking my account before saying yes to a school trip etc.

Perhaps if people realised that actually academic success, hard work and achieving financial freedom feed in some way into happiness they'd encourage it more.

100%. I know plenty of people with really high intelligence whose parents were "whatever makes you happy" types and now they're in middle of the road jobs and struggling in this economic climate. I know one person who had no support or encouragement academically and was almost encouraged the other way with lots of comments like "being clever isn't the be all and end all", "I didn't get any exams and I turned out ok" etc - that person is now unemployed and struggling. So actually no real sense of structure or ability to cope with difficult schedules can work the other way. That person has tried employment - a number of different jobs- and found 9-5 very tiring and taxing.

I've had friends who now in late 30s/early 40s comment on how they wish they'd had my upbringing- funny because at the time they enjoyed less structure and being able to go off out down the park as teenagers etc when I was always busy.

Exactly this. And education gives you choices I want to make sure my son is able to do whatever he wants - and options are the key to happiness. I couldn’t care less if he works in a minimum wage retail job if that’s his choice - what I don’t want is for that to be the only option available to him so he feels stuck.

My son isn’t Chinese or Indian, but my ethos is a lot like the parents of some of these children because my son has complex SEN and is at huge risk of being a vulnerable unemployed adult if I let him “just” focus on doing what makes him happy right now. Instead I’m helping him to lay a strong foundation for his future so he knows he is intelligent and capable.

'Well I am not going to encourage my DC to do poorly in uni and coast along on the off chance that they get a disorder.'

Mad comment of the thread goes to...

I have been called mad on this thread
Meanwhile on another thread people are discussing Kemi Badenoch's comments that certain cultures are less valid than others. Apparently Indian immigrants are suspect because India has a high rate of sexual assault and Indian women are forced into marriage at 12. Oh and also Indian immigrants in the UK can't possibly be skilled global talent. They are likely child brides escaping sexual assault or rapists, because of course Indians dont value education.Though on this thread apparently they are all pushy parents obsessed with education! We can't win!

That really is the stereotype that every Indian has to fight against. In 2024 we are still not judged on our own merits or education. I won't apologise to the extremely privileged white folk on this thread for encouraging my DC to escape that stereotype and aim for something other than a minimum wage job. Because they will have to work twice as hard to be seen as worthy of respect.

You really wrote that from the heart @Onlyonekenobe , thank you for understanding and for the solidarity. Massive respect to you from across the Ethernet 🛜