AIBU to rehome our much loved dog?

[Fluffy2023]

I need some impartial advice before I potentially make a terrible choice so hit me with your honest thoughts please. For context, I have a dog who we have owned from a pup. He was brought home and lockdown happened the following day which meant no socialisation or training classes. This meant after lockdown, he was terrified and fear aggressive to dogs and people. We did take him to multiple training classes when things re opened, however this made him more scared. We have always managed his fear aggression by keeping him away from visitors and worked with a behaviouralist, making him slightly more calm. We have also had a baby who is now a toddler and our dog is scared and lashes out at the toddler whenever he is in the same room. We are now in a position where the dog is living in another room to the family and we feel this isn't fair on him. He gets walked and love and attention but not as much as we or he would like. We have found a possible suitable match for him (pending a home check and that the new owner wants him after initial meeting).
I'm in bits, is it more cruel to send him away, or to keep him with us but living in a separate part of the house? We have tried things with vet advice including medication but no improvement. My main worry is that even with checks, his new home might be cruel or dishonest or give him away again when we can keep him, but just not as close to us as he would like. Any advice appreciated.

Thank you for the kind offer of help. I'm not near you unfortunately. I have reached out to my local vet etc though and we are considering all options (except pts)

The crate option we have tried as he is crate trained. Only issue is he growls, lunges and bites the bars when anyone walks past. We feel this too is cruel. At the minute we have a sliding baby gate on the door so he is in the kitchen/laundry room. No chance of accidental toddler fingers being bitten through the bars either. I'm terrified we have a lapse in concentration and miss our toddler poking his fingers through the bars of the cage (unlikely but always possible due to human error on our part).

Thank you for this, really appreciate your balanced view. Taking everything in to account (but also agree, PTS is not on the cards).

What’s he like on a walk? Or in someone else’s house? Does he show the same behaviour? He would maybe benefit from a more dominant owner aswell - he will definitely be able to tell you also feel insecure and don’t trust him; so he will be grappling to understand who is the boss in the group and where his place is; whilst feeling frightened of the toddler and the general insecurity in the environment. So his default behaviour is defence because he is afraid. X

Chihuahuas don’t actually have a strong pack drive ( so are less likely to be comfortable and benefit from being in a pack of other rescue dogs) and they are also on the list of top 10 likely dogs to bite ..so again , don’t presume that all dogs are “fixable” whatever the environment.

I agree with what @babyproblems says

and I am relieved that the Op@Fluffy2023 and I are in agreement that the dog is not going to be destroyed !

It's just a case of finding the right home...
asap !

He is barky and defensive on walks which we've always managed using the watch command and treating when he listens. He's majorly improved in this area too but still reacts without distraction.

In other houses he will settle after half an hour or so and stop barking. If ignored he will come out of his shell but any sudden movements etc he will dove in head first to protect himself and react.

He would benefit from a calmer, more dominant owner. It'd finding the right one now that's priority if we can find someone.

YABU to rehome him directly.

You should ALWAYS go through a reputable rescue centre. I can't tell you how many awful people there are out there that will take your beloved dog and do horrible things with it.

Never, never organise a rehome yourself unless it's to a long-standing close personal connection who you will see regularly.

That's great he is muzzle trained already. If he has been properly conditioned it's not cruel, he should barely notice he has it on. Of course it shouldn't be used for long periods but if he absolutely has to be in the same room as your toddler or only one door apart (should ideally be 2+ doors between them at all times) you can use the muzzle as an extra safety measure.

Unfortunately your little guy was set up to fail by the breeder, and their lack of interest when you reached out for help confirms this. It makes the situation more complicated as poor genetics contribute to a higher chance of challenging behaviour and lower possibility of being able to fix it with training alone. Maybe I was wrong before and the right balance of medication could get him to the point of coping well enough to work on the rest through other methods. You will not find the advice you need here anyway, you should consult a veterinary behaviourist (not a regular vet, or a regular behaviourist) which will be expensive but maybe your last option if you really believe it's possible for him to have a happy life with you.

Otherwise, keep pursuing the rescue route. Reach out to all your smaller, local rescues as they are more likely to assess on a case by case basis and consider dogs with bite history. They will also already know lots of knowledgeable and experienced people in the community who may be a good match or at least be able to foster until a permanent home is found, since, like others have said, it could take a long time.

Please join the reactive dog group on fb. If you don't have an account just make one so you can join. I have read hundreds of stories similar to yours on there and you will get genuine understanding and support from people who have been through this. Here you have 100+ replies and will continue to get more, of which only a handful are useful.

@OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon This is a dog who is badly bred, that has a bite history and that is fear aggressive to both dogs and humans. Multiple rescues face also refused to help as a result of this.

Keeping a dog alive when it is that traumatised and terrified of the world around it is arguably quite a cruel thing to do. Dogs aren't humans - they don't understand right from wrong. They have no concept of the future or the fact that they could live another 12 years if they behaved differently.

They live in the moment, and a dog who spends all its' "moments" either alone or in a state of fear and panic is not a happy dog. A dog that snaps, growls and lunges is not a happy dog.

Yes, you're right that a chihuahua can't hurt a child in the same way a larger dog can, but that's almost irrelevant when we're talking about the dogs' mental stability and quality of life.

Otherwise, keep pursuing the rescue route. Reach out to all your smaller, local rescues as they are more likely to assess on a case by case basis and consider dogs with bite history.

Rescues are full to bursting with young dogs who don't have a bite history and who aren't aggressive to people - the chances of one taking on a dog that fits into both those categories and is able to find it a suitable home is absolutely tiny.

You also have to consider whether it's morally acceptable to pass a dog with these issues around the rescue system, or from pillar to post when it's already terrified of people and other animals.

Maybe if op discloses a vague location, which part of uk she's in, maybe she may get more specific responses for that area.

I don't know though, it's so difficult re homing aggresive dogs.
Poor little mite, surely someone has experience of behavioural issues with chi chi's.

So difficult for op, it's hearbreaking making decisions like this.

Not a dog person, so excuse my ignorance, but I'm really fascinated by the lack of consensus on this thread. Usually the doggy people are pretty agreed and any dissent comes from people like me who don't know what they're talking about.

I'm curious, if this dog is 'just' showing lousy behaviour that's pretty typical of the breed but hasn't been properly trained out of him, then why are the breed-specific rescues unwilling to take him? Is it because actually his behavioural problems must be worse than just typical chihuahua behaviour? Or because they could have been trained out of him but are too ingrained at his age? Or are the rescues just too overwhelmed because of the whole lockdown pet phenomenon (appreciate this was not quite OP's situation)?

If his problems are more than just standard chihuahua problems and unlikely to be amenable to patient, knowledgeable training, surely you have to consider the idea that rehoming him is a bad idea, OP - both for any subsequent owner and, importantly, for him? And also that keeping him is a bad idea too, as things are unlikely ever to improve and you know that they're not sustainable as they are presently.

It sounds to me as though this prospective new owner is approaching this more with optimism than with confidence - "he may settle with slow introductions to his new pack and this might help him feel more safe and secure". But what if he doesn't? I think there's a good chance he may end up being euthanised anyway, and that may be a best case scenario, given this woman is basically a random. I would be concerned that visiting her house won't give you any more information than visiting his "breeder's" house did.

I think your adamance that you won't euthanise is undermining your ability to make a balanced decision. There are no ideal outcomes here, only less worse ones. But I'm interested to hear from others who think PTS is inappropriate why they think the breed-specific rescues have said they can't/won't help.

I appreciate this is a deserately upsetting situation.

I understand and agree with many of your points however I do not believe all options have been exhausted yet and so euthanasia seems like a very extreme step to take currently.

Maybe I should have clarified - I don't mean a rescue with a single physical location as this dog will only get worse in a kennel environment. Many small rescues will have a network of foster carers and can place a dog there or have them stay with their owner until a new home is found. They are still legitimate, registered organisations and rely on funding to cover medical expenses etc. but are not relying on a small number of kennels or limited to a very small number of dogs they can help at any one time. It will be very hard to find one like this but they exist and this what I mean by exhausting all options. It also means the dog would hopefully not be passed around as he would only leave his current situation when the right home was ready to take him in.

@Uguberry I know the kind of rescues you describe, and they're fantastic, but I think people are being unrealistic about what a rescue or foster can actually do with a dog like this.

A fear aggressive dog with a bite history is going to be next to impossible to rehome responsibly - so what happens? The dog gets passed around foster families or ends up languishing in kennels where it gets PTS anyway as the behaviour is only going to get worse.

How is that any better than being put to sleep with family by its' side, and without all the trauma of being passed around various fosters or kennels?

The reality is that people don't want dogs that bite. They don't want dogs who lunge and snarl and can't safely be in a room with children or visitors. Sometimes the kindest thing is to put an animal out of its' misery.

The dog has has an awful start in life by not being socialised and being removed from the only home it knows is going to cause more anxiety.

The dog shouldn't go into inexperienced hands where people have good hearts but not the knowledge and understanding of a damaged dog.

The dogs future realistically will end up being passed on a few more times before inevitably being put to sleep.

You have two choices, rehome it with an expert where the dogs best chances lay but sadly is going to be extremely difficult to find as there are many, many damaged dogs requiring special care.

Or you speak to your vet about putting the dog to sleep.

The problem with most rescues is the word ' bitten '

had the Op not used the word ' bitten ' to any rescue - the rescue would accept him, the majority of rescues will not / can not accept a dog which has ' bitten ' as they cannot rehome a dog that has ' bitten ' because he may / will bit again then the rescue is responsible.

I believe the dog is not aggressive because he is nasty, he is aggressive because for various reasons he is frightened thus it is he way of protecting himself.

this rescue is probably exactly what this dog needs,
copied from their website

www.devondogbehaviour.co.uk/
DDB Rehab & Rehome
Rehab and Rehome (DDBR&R) is our not for profit rehoming organisation.

We take in dogs that need our specialist behavioural skills for rehabilitation
before finding them the right home for their needs.

They have a website - details above, a Facebook page and phone numbers:
01803 813160 / 07800 658669

and an email address: [email protected]

and if the dog were a Rottie or something similar i would be urging the Op to get them to accept and rehome her dog.

but her dog is a Chi and to be fair to the above rescue they are needed for the ' bigger ' dogs.

However maybe a phone call ? to the rescue might help the Op ?

I will add that having read every page on the above website, there is now more emphasis on her dog training ( and prices ! ) than previously and less info on the rescue side.

but I do know she does - or did take in dogs, if she had space.

How do i ' know ' of her ? she has a poster in my vets and has done for years. the poster usually ' advertises ' dogs that need homes and dogs that have found their ' happy ever afters '

actually having written all of the above, I wonder if this lady has 2 websites ?
as having hit the return button on my keyboard i got this:
(same phone numbers/same lady of course
but much more rescue / rehoming rather than training )

copied from website:

Devon Dog Rescue & Rehoming

Devon Dog Behaviour Rehab & Rehome (DDBR&R) is a unique dog rescue service in Devon. We use our specialist behavioural skills to help dogs that need us.
We can help dogs with behavioural issues. We also take in puppies that need homes.
We take dogs of all breeds and ages from clients, vets, rescue centres and members of the public. We generally focus on dogs in Devon. However, occasionally we may have space for a desperate dog from further afield.
We receive no Government funding so totally rely on the generosity and support of the public through donations and legacies. All the money received is used to fund the vital work we do.
You can directly support DDBR&R and make a huge difference to dogs in need in your local area.
Check out our Amazon Wishlist if you want help our dogs with essential items they need.
Find out more or join us on Facebook for our latest news.
Contact: [email protected]

Spot on! And u have tried everything OP. The current situation isn't sustainable and is potentially dangerous which will worsen the longer you leave it.
Take care, I know this is very, very hard.

I sympathise with you OP as I also have a baby and a reactive dog (spaniel), thankfully my spaniel is amazing with the baby but gets very fearful around strangers and other dogs. She's also a lockdown dog so all puppy classes were cancelled, couldn't even book her on outdoor ones here. She has long walks but was attacked twice by off lead dogs in parks (big dogs as well, German shephards and a staffy) so she's terrified. She ignores dogs and other strangers on walks if they mind their own business but as soon as they approach her she goes crazy barking and lunging.

Do you know what it is exactly the dog is scared of? I wonder if you section off an area of your biggest room and let the dog just calm down by itself, it will get used to all the 'scary' unfamiliar noises of the baby gradually. Then you have to praise the dog for being calm with treats. It will take time by the sounds of it, what have Behaviourists said about this specific issue? Don't be afraid of being honest with them and tell them you're worried for the safety of your baby.

That's true, and it will be extremely difficult but not impossible. He has size on his side. People are much more likely to give a dog a chance who they don't believe poses a serious threat to them. I know people who have taken on reactive dogs with bite history, even GSDs. Completely changing the setting and expectation from the dog transformed them.

From what OP has said the dog doesn't seem to direct this behaviour towards her, so that's already a good sign. What would be the rehoming requirements for this dog, really? A single or 2 person adult household without visiting children, experience with reactivity, potentially breed experience, and a safe outdoor space. It doesn't sound that bad to me. Not somewhere overly busy like a city centre, but a totally secluded rural setting may not be necessary. After the adjustment period and the dog realises this new space is safe, he may be able to desensitise from external factors and noises, at least he'll be in an environment it's much easier to start from. He may not need walks, with his own outdoor space and plenty of enrichment that might suit him better. I no longer take my senior dog out since she lost her hearing as she finds the whole world terrifying now, even people just walking past make her jump, and she loves people. Instead she has multiple play sessions each day with her toys, we do games and enrichment activities to give her a mental challenge and she is so much happier with this lifestyle. Obviously a young dog (and small breed) has a lot more energy and won't sleep 20 hours a day like she does but mental stimulation can go a long way.

In fact that's another thing that might help you OP. Look up canine enrichment ideas and for the time being you can offer plenty of games and distractions if walks aren't beneficial to him. It can even really help build confidence in anxious pups.

I get what you're saying @Uguberry I really do, but realistically there are thousands of other dogs in rescue centres who don't bite, who don't react and who aren't snapping and snarling at anyone who walks past them.

It's not so much that OP's dog is beyond help, it's that there are so many other dogs who can't find homes and that don't have any of these problems - yes, on paper your criteria don't seem too strict or too unachievable but when every rescue centre in the country is struggling to find homes for health, happy dogs, the chances for a dog like this are so, so small.

It's also not just about finding a home, it's about what happens in the months or years between OP giving a dog up and the rescue finding a family. Any kind of fear reactivity or aggression is only going to get worse if this dog ends up being passed around fosters with no sense of stability.

None of that means I don't sympathise with OP massively - it's a horrible situation and a horrible decision but ultimately you have to do what's best for your dogs' long term welfare, rather than what makes you feel better and what eases your conscience.

I was going to suggest this too.
Breed specific rescues are the way to go as they usually have a waiting list for potential owners, know the breed and characteristics too. They would be my 1st port of call. Plus if they re home him, the new owner has to give him back to them it it doesn't work out

I get it, I appreciate you're trying to be realistic and I'm probably being overly optimistic for the outcome. Really we don't have enough information or first hand experience of the dog for any of our opinions to matter in this decision. All we can do is suggest people OP can reach out to who are experienced and qualified to fully assess the dog and offer advice.

It does not seem urgent that the dog leaves the household if enough safety measures are in place for both him and toddler, and things are adapted to make him more comfortable, so potentially he could stay until a new home is found following lots of visits and trial periods and so on. Right now he has shelter, food, attention and OP's best efforts to keep him calm and happy. I know it might not work out but I believe there is still some time here to make changes and keep options open.

@Uguberry did you see OP's update where she says this dog is having to live in the kitchen behind a closed door, because even when crated, he growls and tries to bite people through the bars?

Keeping a dog like that in a home with a curious toddler is an accident waiting to happen - it's also pretty unkind to the dog. They are sociable animals and deserve much more than being shut away in a kitchen all day (which will only be making the behaviour ten times worse than it already is).

In an ideal world, this dog would go to rescue for evaluation and find a child-free home with no visitors, with experienced owners who have the time and money to spend on him, but the reality just isn't like that. A dog with a bite history is a massive re-home risk - and for good reason.