To not know whether the school are at fault in how they dealt with my 16 year old and 10 months old very academic but immature Autistic daughter after she acted out due to her disabilties.

[Battlehorse]

DD is an extremely bright 16 year old who obtained 9 grade 9 s at GCSE this year. However, despite being academically very able feel is emotionally immature for Sixth Form. This in no small part due to her autism, meaning at times she can exhibit emotional outbursts that can not be predicted or mitigated for.

The school my daughter attends is a girls grammar school which highlights achievements of its pupils in magazines, newsletters and in the local media . This meaning in August, the school took the obligatory pictures of their high attaining pupils getting their GCSE results and putting the pictures in the September/ October newsletter.

DD who is very unsure of herself or her self worth, viewed the newsletter online.
This caused her huge emotional distress which led to her swearing at the head of Sixth form and running out of school in a state of anguish. The school have told her to stay home until Thursday. DD called me on her phone outside the school premises to pick her up today.

I can't help thinking the school in printing her name and picture and encouraging her to take 4 A Levels have not taken in to account her learning disabilities. This totally against my wishes for her that she takes no more than 3 A Levels and also be allowed three years for her Sixth Form study.

The school have been aware of her Autism diagnosis since she was 13. However, due to her high academic ability she does not have an EHCP, though the school previously have acknowledged they have a duty of care. This being the reason why a unofficial two day stay at home notice has been given, rather than as a potential suspension sanction against her.

She can’t swear at anyone and storm off. Use it as a life lesson as she’s going to be in full time employment in a few years. Yes she’s immature and masking a lot but there are still rights and wrongs. Autistic children, like any other children, need to learn boundaries and consequences. I think the school are being fair by saying it isn’t an expulsion. It’s a calming down period.

As for doing A-Levels over 3 years, the only way she could do this is if she did Year 12, Year 13 and then Year 12 again. Our school don’t have the capacity to let students do this as we would have a new cohort coming through.

You say they can't be predicted or mitigated but outbursts don't come from nothing. Their are always small signs that can indicate its about to happen and you learn to pick up on them before it becomes a point of loss of control. At 16 she does need to start trying to control it. What support is she getting?

I think you’re being unreasonable in many ways. For example trying to dictate the amount of years she studies or the amount of a-levels she completes. It is standard practice for everyone to study 3 a-levels over 2 years - it matches university entry requirements so the education system is geared up to allow people to enter the next chapter.

I have only seen people study longer, if they don’t pass AS year, so they essentially resit the year to allow them to progress to A2 year. If you fail A2 exams, you can opt to resit them privately as I think only a certain amount of years of education are funded.

I have only seen people complete less a-levels, if they have not obtained a grade high enough to allow them to progress. I have seen people complete “foundation” a levels if their GCSE grades aren’t high enough, but that doesn’t apply for your daughter. Other people opt to complete BTECs instead.

so to summarise I don’t think you should be the one dictating how she studies, that’s a conversation between the school and her and you to see what is reasonable. It is more likely she will get support to help her in the normal curriculum as opposed to a mandatory extension to her years of education.

There’s maturity then there’s swearing at teachers. The two are not the same.

OP seems remarkably unbothered about her daughter's swearing at the teacher and rather unappreciative of the school's attempts to manage this. As someone said upthread, no wonder teachers leave.

I am not really sure how you expect the school to predict her outbursts before they happen ? This is completely impossible. She was fine with the photographs being taken, how could they possibly predict her reaction and why are they to blame? Your DD, despite her diagnosis, has to learn that such behaviours towards teachers are unacceptable.

OP Is part of the reasonable adjustment you expect that the teachers go on an intensive training course on mind reading? That might better equip them to know when these outbursts will occur.

And the lesson of this thread is: don't post about ND issues in AIBU, post in the SEN or SN teens forum instead, and hope to god your thread doesn't become visible in Active.

OP, I think you are getting a lot of well intentioned but not particularly useful advice from people who have no experience of ASC or whose ND children have not struggled in the way that your DD does. My DD is very similar and unfortunately we did not pick up on it as she was high achieving academically. However, she has had the most dreadful couple of years since leaving school despite excellent grades. We have since learned a lot about autism in girls and emotional regulation, but it has taken an awful lot of therapy and OT for her to get to a place where she can start to understand herself and her feelings.
In your shoes, I would request a meeting with the pastoral Head as well as the head of sixth form. I think it’s important that they understand what it was like for your daughter, whose anxiety must have been through the roof. It is, of course, important to have boundaries and you can explain how awful she feels about her outburst and how you don’t condone such behaviour. Equally though, you must impress upon them the importance of helping your daughter through situations like this rather than suspending her which is not going to help her in the long term. The school may not have the skills to do this in which case you may have to educate them yourself or you may have to find her an alternative sixth form. She will get the grades because she is academically bright but what is important for her right now is that she learns to understand herself and her feelings and be able to express herself appropriately. As I’m sure you know, people with autism have inflexible thinking so it may take time for things to improve but they can, as long as she is in a supportive environment. Good luck OP, one of the hardest things in the world is watching your child struggle.

A-Levels can happen in three years as school do allow them to repeat a year in some circumstances. I would get in and talk to the school about her doing three not four A-Levels and whether she could do the year again if it didn't work out for her this year.

Sorry, I do not see the issue. The school seems to have been very reasonable IMO.

Equally though, you must impress upon them the importance of helping your daughter through situations like this rather than suspending her which is not going to help her in the long term.

A shorts suspension, rather than an exclusion, is helping OP's dd to learn that she can't behave like this. What else should the school do in this situation?

Would OP prefer the teacher to not react at all? Or say 'I know you don't mean this' and thus potentially further escalate the situation? Or 'I can see you must be very upset, let's see what we can do about this'? What about the teacher's dignity, humanity and right to feel safe in her workplace? Swearing at others because the swearer feels stressed is still not acceptable because it's unkind. Your dd struggles to behave in an acceptable manner. How will you help her op? Why don't you see the exclusion as a learning opportunity?

It sounds almost like OP thinks the 9 9s give her dd special credibility and the school should be grateful to have such an academic high achiever.

OP, you are wrong. Swearing is not on, it's abusive, what will you and your dd do to improve the situation?

Ultimately, it is your responsibility as you have given permission for her pictures to be used. Its' easy to blame others but you are not helping yourself or your dd. Take this as another learning for your dd, if she feels sensitive about her pictures being published, which would be very understandable, she has now learned that she can opt out and refuse consent. Empower her, do not disempower the school.

What would be really helpful would be for the sixth form head to take time to understand the outburst and what caused it. It may not even be something that the OP’s DD can pinpoint. It may be extreme anxiety. From the responses I’ve read, everyone seems to agree that swearing at teachers is not acceptable, but there was a wise teacher who replied that being sworn at was something that happens with emotionally dysregulated students. If only more schools understood this, then special needs students would not be suspended for behaviour over which they have no control in the moment. It takes special skills to handle a situation like this

To answer your questions about 4 A Levels and choices taken. The school asks all year 12's to take 4 A Levels then potentially they can drop one in year 13. The school does not take any AS Levels, so the decision to drop or not drop to 3 A Levels is done by the schools internal exams in the June of year 12.

Regarding my DD's choices : My DD wants to be a Political Correspondent that's what she told the Sixth Form Course Coordinator. The logical A Level choices therefore being either English Literature or Language History, Government and Politics. The odd choice being Chemistry, because the school is extremely keen on STEM subjects. The school believes that on her projected academic pathway, she is capable of achieving 4 A grades for the subjects chosen.

I am not downplaying the swearing nor that my DD needs to understand actions whether unfortunate and not meant have consequences. The school is not unaware of Autism and the effects of it on teenage minds ! This, is because the school has a number of Autistic girls whether diagnosed or not, hence similar situations to my DD's have occurred at times.

It seems that DD's work and school balance have been very hit and miss in the last two weeks. This has been conveyed to me by the Head of Sixth Form in the last hour. Falling a sleep in English, not handing in Chemistry homework and gaming online during lunch time.

The reason i give the exact age of my 1st DD is because in many ways she is less mature and worldly than my 14 year old DD. Hence, i would not feel comfortable with DD 1 going to University before the age of 20. Despite being articulate very attractive, and not gay she has little or no interest in boys, in stark contrast to DD 2. DD'1 may never leave home...
A girls grammar school from the age of 11 though competitive and potentially bitchy is a better environment for DD than a huge socially diverse Comprehensive school would have been. I admit at Sixth Form level she has to now begin understanding life and maturing but it takes time. She has 4 or 5 school friends who have looked after her from year 7 .

She can delay going to uni until 20 without spending three years doing A levels.

I don't think that's the hill to die on.

I think the battle you should fight is the 4 A levels. Autism aside, it's totally unnecessary and I have no idea why so many MN schools seems to persist in this approach.

It does sound like she is struggling with a transition point here.

It is. It interferes with how you learn and what you are able to learn more easily.

OP do you think she would be better off elsewhere?

We don't now that the DD was happy with the photos being taken, she may have had no choice, then to find they have been published pushed her over the edge.

I don't see how publishing a picture, assuming you have agreed to photo consent, would be considered a potential issue.

I totally get how and why it could be an issue, I really struggle with having photos taken and knowing one had been made public would probably have me angry crying so I can totally get where the OP is coming from.

No it is not a good idea to swear at a teacher but she obviously felt really stressed and swearing at a teacher is better than a lot of other options.

OP I would want a meeting with the head about how they can support your DD and I would also consider whether she would be better off in another environment.

@Battlehorse She has 4 or 5 school friends who have looked after her from year 7 .

And I presume she has also looked after them? Or have her friends propped her up? Does she lash out at them too?

You are dealing with a difficult situation. But I can't see how else the school can respond. Well-being is a huge topic for HR departments these days and the school needs to be a safe place for all, students, teachers and support staff.

The best you can do now is find out what are the current stressors for your dd and address them together. The next thing is she needs to apologise unreservedly to the teacher. Have you tried to get her to see it from the teacher's POV? Role play it so she is the teacher and you the out of control sweary student. This may help her develop her understanding of the situation.

Has she never before sworn at staff? Does she argue at you? If yes, how do you deescalate?

I think you'll find that the OP herself said it but apparently, when she went in to school and saw it she had a change of heart and thought it perfectly ok to curse the teacher out about it.

I have yet to hear of any disability that means teachers-in a mainstream school-has to put up with abuse and if that is now a thing, then no wonder we have problems recruiting teachers.

If this young woman or anyone else has a change of heart-and we all do regret things-then she has to learn to suck it up.

If she meets you, @Coruscations at a bus stop and lets you go in front of her then finds that you have taken the last seat, will you be happy if she regrets letting you go first and fucks you out of it? Will you excuse it or it is just teachers you expect to swallow this shit?

Bad manners, fucking and blinding can be addressed and should and if you find that depressing then what a world we are building where someone expects to avoid punishment because they are disabled.

One day, this woman may find herself fucking and blinding at the wrong person but you know what, somehow I think she won't because I have a suspicion she may know who to bully and who she can't.

Her mother should make her apologise to the teacher she cursed at. End of,

That's a learning difficulty not disability there is a big difference.

OP, I am autistic as is my DS, your DD has done brilliantly so far academically. From reading your comments it seems that you think the school should allow any behaviour from your DD and she be allowed a free pass.
Sadly, life isn't like that, we all need to find ways to manage and balance our behaviour and feelings.
The photo example is actually ludicrous and she does deserve to be excluded.
If she's capable of those exam passes she does not have a learning disability and you need to stop using it as a stick to beat people with.
To add, saying 16 and 10 mths is also ludicrous.

She wants to be a political correspondent!

How do you think she will cope in that world where deadlines are very real, it's a cut throat world and telling people to fuck off will result in some pretty harsh lessons. She won't last two minutes and probably won't even get her foot in the door.

Taking 3 years for A levels is, as others have pointed out, logistically impossible. In all my 40+ years working in and with schools, the only 3rd year A level students were those doing re-takes. You could ask for her not to sit the exams until the year after but she'd be twiddling her thumbs - or just repeating the same classes she had in the lower or upper sixth.

I'm with those who say the school were quite right in asking her to stay home for a couple of days following her foul-mouthed abuse of a teacher. As a Head, I'd have taken the same action and made clear to student and parents that repeats of it might see her permanently excluded.

It's not logistically impossible to take three years for A levels, plenty of colleges do it. In fact, the SEN Code of Practice specifically requires local authorities and education institutions to take into account the obvious fact that children with SEN may need more time to get qualifications. I agree that, if the school is geared up to do two year courses they can't spread the syllabus over three years, but it's not clear that that is what OP is asking. It may be, for instance, that it would be enough for her daughter to repeat one of the sixth form years.

I’m diagnosed with a NT condition (I refuse to call it a disability). I wasn’t diagnosed until just after uni but it made education extremely difficult for me.

Life is hard especially school. I remember the struggles.

I mean this gently, but you should be focusing on the soft skills for your daughter over the hard skills (aka A Level results).

She’ll never get a job as a runner/tea girl in the world of media if she cannot learn to be at least civil/polite with others. I’d focus on helping her navigate this situation on apologising to the teacher and ensuring that she never swears at somebody else in a professional capacity/takes her frustrations out on others.

Honestly that will set her up better for life than an A-level in English Lit.

What's not being gay, and being attractive got to do with anything? That along with saying she's '16 and 10 months' is all very weird.