Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

I don't think anyone is saying gender dysphoria doesn't exist.

But how is it relevant to anyone other than the person who suffers from it?

Okay, so if they had their own space where only other transwomen could go, for example, how would it be any less safe than a women-only facility? It would give them the exact same protections.

If by privacy, you mean that it would out them as being trans, well in most cases, that would be obvious anyway, and if not maybe they need to get some therapy so they can feel good about who they are?

if you think that it might signpost them as trans to violent men who might enter the toilets to assault them, well that's exactly what women are worried about when it comes to letting transwomen into their own facilities, so it would be rather hypocritical.

Edit: This was in reply to @PiggleToes

Yes - it doesn't work for them because an essential part of being "trans" - is forcing your beliefs on other people and compelling them to treat you they way they want to be treated.

Forcing women to accept is part of it for them

Males are not females. not now not ever.

oh BTW - what IS a trans woman?

I’m It's not all about trans people FFS.
They need to accept that other people aren't just supporting characters in the movie of their life.

Is it all about (trans fearing) women?
or do these particular women also “need accept that other people aren't just supporting characters in the movie of their life”?

Earlier we discussed a point of consensus that both trans people and women deserve respect and dignity. We can’t achieve that without asking what respect and dignity looks like for trans people.

I think a lot of professionals would say that thinking you have gender dysphoria is actually a symptom of an underlying condition, unresolved trauma or another mental health condition.

I think you will find these are male fearing females, not trans fearing females

I kind of agree, but at least it shows that those of us who object are open and willing to discuss things and have actual thought-out reasons for thinking the way we do. Unlike Piggles.

What's a woman? How is a transwoman a woman?

No. There is nothing transphobic in that statement. Not a bean.

This is a complete false equivalence. The female nurses just want to get changed in safety and dignity, which means not having to get changed in the presence of a male colleague. Any male colleague, regardless of how that male colleague identifies, but particularly one who behaves the way this person has been behaving.

What you are saying is that the only thing that "works" for trans women is forcing their female colleagues to take their clothes off in front of them.

Why do you think this person has the right to undress in the presence of female colleagues? Why does this person have the right to see their bodies in a state of undress?

That's all people like this have, labelling everyone who does not agree transphobic or bigoted. Luckily, very few people are falling for it anymore.

"We can’t achieve that without asking what respect and dignity looks like for trans people."

• it would be everyone everywhere validating them and saying they really were the sex they say they want to be

What IS a trans woman?

I think it’s obvious why it’s relevant to other people. Hence threads like these.
Some posters are not prepared to accept it does exist despite trans people undergoing horrendous mutilating surgery. Even if a psychiatrist diagnosed someone with gender dysphoria, posters on here would still consider that individual a man or woman.

It's pointless, it falls on deaf ears. It's been the same for many years. After a few responses you can gauge who is looking for genuine discussion and who is just fishing and deflecting. This person falls into the latter.

But has it occurred to you that trans people might also just want to get changed in safety and dignity? Have you wondered what that looks like for them?

I don’t care if some men have mental health issues that make them think they are women.

Women should not have to accept any male, no matter how nice they are or what mental health problems they have into single sex spaces.

We are not support humans for mentally ill men. 🙄

What's a woman? How is a transwoman a woman?

Because they are? Sure, they might feel like they're not, but materially they will always be the sex they were born, and in certain situations, sex is the thing that matters most. Why should people pretend a man is a woman if they know it not to be true?

My brother is schizophrenic, he believes some very strange things and can get very upset if others don't believe what he's saying to be true, but you know what? I try to be kind and compassionate, but I don't validate it.

Edit: sorry that was to @Leniriefenstahl Quoting isn't working for me for some reason.

OK, but we don't ban people from changing rooms on the basis that they have mental health conditions.

The point I'm making is that person A having gender dysphoria has no impact on what persons B, C and D are.

A male person with dysphoria is not the same as a female person without dysphoria.

So I would say that having dysphoria is utterly irrelevant to what single sex spaces you should be using, and if you disagree with that you appear to have main character syndrome.

Men (no matter how they identify) in women's spaces aren't safe for women. The recent Ministry of Justice figures show that trans prisoners are over represented as sex offenders.

The safety and dignity of women and girls matters just as much as men who claim to be women. Had Stonewall and all the other trans extremist groups advocated for third spaces from the outset, many issues would have been resolved. Sadly they didn't.

No women anywhere in the world campaigned for single sex spaces to be removed from us. This is a male dominated ideology that targets women's boundaries and positions women as support humans for mentally vulnerable men.

What does that look like? What happens when women and transwomen's wants and needs conflicts? Who should give way?

Even if a psychiatrist diagnosed someone with gender dysphoria, posters on here would still consider that individual a man or woman.

Well yes. A dysphoria diagnosis doesn't change your sex either.

Why do they not feel safe and dignified undressing with other transwomen?

I hear you.
But have you wondered what is safe for trans people?

I think 'Rose' would have been very unhappy