Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

Because you don't think these women have the right to say, "No, I don't consent to being undressed in the presence of this male person."

You've shown absolutely zero signs of caring about their safety and dignity at all.

but I think if we take seriously that point of consensus-
women’s safety and dignity is important, trans people’s safety and dignity is important. Then we have serious work to do finding policy solutions that genuinely take in to consideration the safety and dignity for both groups.

But you actually don't think women's safety and dignity is important though, do you? Otherwise you would t be entertaining these male demands.

It's very simple, one group doesn't get to prioritise their requirements regardless of the impact on everyone else.

We do what works best for society at large. Men infiltrating women's spaces is not that.

So the answer needs to be something that doesn't involve compromising women's sex specific spaces. Very simple.

Agree

It’s disgusting, the entire trust is talking about the issue. We stand with the female nurses, they should not have to change with a man who thinks he can encroach into a female space! He has a penis and a wife whom he is trying for a baby with, changing his name does not make him a woman.

Well, exactly .... "whatever that means".

Transgender women are men. They haven't lived a single second of their lives as women. The only way to live as a woman is to be born female and hope to reach adulthood!

This is a male with a COCK AND NUTSACK!

What don't you understand about that?

Why should a male with a COCK AND BALLS not use the..... MALE facility?

How is a MALE with a COCK AND BALLS 'not safe' in a.....MALE facility?

And why should women be fucking HUMAN SHIELDS for males?

Changing times. When I was a student nurse it was a serious offence to go out of the grounds in uniform, because of transfer of germs but in case there was an accident/sudden illness eg on public transport, and we were not qualifed to help, and could cause harm.

You've repeatedly said that the safety and dignity of all these women and girls isn't as important as the safety and dignity of this one trans person.

Why?

How do you justify or explain that? (Other than "because I'm a massive fucking misogynist who hates women and the only reason I care about this one trans woman is because I actually believe they are a man".)

Fwiw I think they would have to use those spaces. Public dissent would be too great. Whatever the expense, if women’s safety and dignity is genuinely paramount, third spaces are the way. Expense shouldn’t really come into it.

Have you wondered why “ third spaces” might not work for trans people? Is it possible that this wouldn’t protect their safety and dignity? Could you think of any reasons why this might be?

Ah, women must be used as human shields to protect males.

There is no evidence anywhere that males who claim to be women are in any danger in male facilities, none at all. Two prominent transwomen went into the male toilets to try and prove how badly they would be treated and it backfired spectacularly as not one single man in there took any notice whatsoever of them not so much as a side eye look.

There are no reasons why third spaces wouldn't work, transwomen are perfectly safe in male facilities so why wouldn't they be in a separate third space? Do disabled people lose their safety and dignity by using a designated separate space?

You've shown absolutely zero signs of caring about their safety and dignity at all.

how so?

How would it be enforced?

There are trans people who openly say they would not use them and would continue to use women's spaces, such as India Willoughby for example.

And this is all most of us here want.

Then why are you defending mens preferences, specifically men that get their cock out in front of women and girls?

What is wrong with you?

You know, a male getting his cock out in front of women used to be a crime called Indecent Exposure. Only a sexual predator, which is what this man is, gets his cock out in front of women and girls, and while talking to them out his sex life.

Do you even understand what this is about? A male sexual predator exposing himself to women?

Fair enough. I’m not sure where you’d stand legally though if you treated them as a bloke and they had a GRC.

Sorry I'm still way back on page 8 and I'm sure things have moved on, but this is a tiresome misconception.The GRC is an agreement between the holder and the government, not individuals. I believe Michael Foran (University of Glasgow, specialises in constitutional law with a particular focus on the rule of law, legal equality, and the common law constitutional tradition) has confirmed that the GRC has no control over individual citizens.

So just to be clear you can’t think of any reasons at all why requiring trans women to change in men’s facilities , or using third spaces, might compromise their dignity and safety?

Because you don't think they have the right to a single sex space in which to get changed, which is what THEY need for THEIR safety and dignity.

Their need for a single sex space so they can feel safe getting changed = unreasonable/impractical.

A trans woman's need to force unconsenting naked women to get changed in the same space as them so they can feel like one of the girls = totally reasonable.

Make it make sense.

That of course is what women and girls world wide are being told by trans extremists. That their privacy, dignity and safety don't matter. These men will be in women's hard fought for spaces and women are required to accept their presence without comment.

What you're seeing is women finally saying no. The challenges of men claiming to be women are not ours to solve. Too many women and girls have actively been harmed by all this - in hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms and elsewhere.

Start doing the hard work. Start recognising the epidemic of VAWG and stop adding to it by removing women's safe spaces. Do all the work for trans people like our foremothers did for women from the suffragettes, 2nd wave feminists and more. Stop appropriating everything for women and start creating.
Spend some of the countless £££ from the taxpayer etc to create safe 3rd spaces and tackle male violence against trans people.

Oh - and if you could get your mates to stop harassing and intimidating every women's group that attempts to meet to discuss feminism that would be fucking awesome as well.

Can you? Other than hypothetical "outing"?

I listed a few of the possible reasons in an earlier post and addressed why I don't think they trump women's rights to single-sex spaces. That's what it boils down to, isn't it - should women have to compromise their own privacy, dignity and safety in favour of transwomen. I think not, but if you think they should, why?

Even if it did compromise their dignity and safety, the solution can't be to demand that women compromise their own dignity and safety. Women do not exist to solve men's problems.

So you can’t think of any reasons at all why requiring trans women to change in men’s facilities , or using third spaces, might compromise their dignity and safety?

No, clearly not as there aren't any.

Transpeople have a right to privacy, dignity and safety.

This is NOT the same as expecting and providing validation.

Don't conflate the two.

In order to have privacy and dignity you need to ensure protections in the workplace. This means potentially having a discreet space which doesn't have a sign on the door alerting people to the use of the room. It could be a secure room to ensure safety. Potentially with CCTV coverage to ensure safe exit / entry. You also don't tell other staff about the arrangement. Arrangements over the use of the room are made discretly with the relevant manager.

Then the person is covered by other workplace rules regarding harassment.

It is not for women to lose their privacy and dignity and to be use against their will as tools for validation. Because that is against their rights to be used and forced in this way.

Stop it with the whole thing that we all have to go along with this. WE DO NOT.

Privacy, dignity and safety do not have to equal sharing the same changing room. Indeed arguably, if you are getting changed then sharing a changing room - particularly an open plan one - HOW THE FUCK - do you argue its about privacy and dignity if you are taking your clothes off? I mean if you've got a wanger and no tits, its fairly fucking obvious in a state of undress. Or are the women supposed to go blind at that point or risk being accused of whatever it happens to be.

The logic of how we've got to 'women must share changing rooms against their will because otherwise transwomen lose their privacy and dignity' is so fucked in the head and ridiculous I don't know where to start.

That of course is what women and girls world wide are being told by trans extremists. That their privacy, dignity and safety don't matter.

So therefore it’s ok for women like you to equally tell trans people that their privacy, dignity and safety doesn’t matter?

instead we have trans people simply being demonised and dismissed and told their safety and dignity isn’t as important as women/ girls

Trans people are either male, or female.

Spaces are MALE, or FEMALE. Not male and 'trans people'.

This 'trans person' (and he hasn't even transitioned and is not actually trans) is a MALE. A male. With a cock and balls. No matter how he 'identifies' he is a MALE with MALE genitals. Therefore he belongs in the......M.A.L.E space.

Understand? It's not trans people vs male and female.

It is MALE vs FEMALE. He is a sexual predator indecently exposing himself to women and girls. What don't you understand about that? This is a man. With male genitals. A sexual predator exposing himself to the MOST vulnerable category there is: females. Women and girls. If he did this in a park wearing a trenchcoat, he'd be arrested. And you know it.