Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

Okay, so let's say transwomen would not be safe in a third space and it would be unfair to ask them to do so. What would be your solution to ensure that this does not impact on women's rights to feel safety, dignity and privacy too, or should they just suck it up? Should they just lump it? What?

I don't much care which facilities they use. It's up to them and their employer to find a solution which doesn't involve forcing unconsenting women and girls to get naked in their presence.

Are you for real?? Please please say you aren't healthcare worker.

ICU nurse commutes in uniform and enters the ward.... [fainting]

Stop deflecting.

what is a "trans woman"?

Pretty much. Men should use men's facilities (or a third space). If that is unsafe for some of those men, too bad. It's not going to be women hurting them is it?

I'm going to repeat this:

In effect the impact on multiple women needs to be taken into consideration versus the impact on one male - both argue its an affront to their dignity and privacy. The women also are arguing about their safety and concerns about harassment. All people being equal you act so there is the least impact on the fewest people.

Which part of this do you have a problem with? Why are transwomen and women not equal in their right to privacy and dignity? Why when multiple women, who lawfully do not believe you can change sex, have to share with a male? Why do their safety and concerns not matter? Why must multiple women be potentially harmed for the benefit of one male?

The solution is to provide a third space discreetly to protect the privacy and safety of the male.

This is not hard to work out and administer.

Then if that member of staff is harassed in any way, you THEN deal with it using the appropriate channels.

Validating his identity by allowing him to use the women presence in the same room and forcing others to go along with it, is not compatible with Forstater.

If he 'just wants to get changed', then let him change. He does not need the presence of the women to change.

Women are not there to be support humans for males who want their identity validating.

I’m hoping that this is sarcasm, but fearing not. And why the capital B on bigoted ?

They should use the men's or speak to management to arrange a third space. They shouldn't be forcing their way into women's spaces and making them uncomfortable.

I know it has already been asked repeatedly, but I'll try again:

WHY DOES THE "SAFETY AND DIGNITY" OF MEN WITH SAD FEELINGS REQUIRE THE PRESENCE OF UNCONSENTING NAKED WOMEN?

Love this post. Great question

NHS England did an evidence review during COVID and concluded that travelling to and from work in uniform doesn't add to infection risk but "public attitudes indicate it is good practice for staff to change at work or cover their uniforms."

But it's down to individual NHS employers to decide their own policy and IIRC from when the story was first reported, this Trust requires staff to change on site. And realistically, sometimes staff will have no option but to change at work.

The issue is that these nurses claim that their employer is forcing women to change in the same space with a sexually active heterosexual male who, they say, wanders around in tight underwear and stares at them while they're getting undressed. This includes women who've been sexually abused and those who can't change in front of a male for religious/cultural reasons. But when they complained about this they allege they were threatened with disciplinary action and that HR told them that they needed to "be educated" and "broaden their mindset."

So I'm glad they've brought the case. Win or lose, this stuff needs sunlight.

Not a woman ?

Stop deflecting

what is a "trans woman"

And why can a male not use the male changing space?

What would be your solution

I don’t know, I don’t have all the answers, but I think if we take seriously that point of consensus-
women’s safety and dignity is important
trans people’s safety and dignity is important
Then we have serious work to do finding policy solutions that genuinely take in to consideration the safety and dignity for both groups.
That is not what is happening on this thread- instead we have trans people simply being demonised and dismissed and told their safety and dignity isn’t as important as women/ girls and that they should “just fucking lump it”.

Lets keep asking it @PiggleToes ? What do you say?

You have not come up with a SINGLE SUGGESTION - not one

and you still can;t say what a trans woman even is?

Too bad?
So safety and dignity for trans people isn’t relevant or important in this discussion?

Let's be honest, @PiggleToes, you don't actually believe that trans women are women. Because if you did, you wouldn't give a shiny shit about their safety or dignity. The only reason why you care is because you actually see them as men.

WHY DOES THE "SAFETY AND DIGNITY" OF MEN WITH SAD FEELINGS REQUIRE THE PRESENCE OF UNCONSENTING NAKED WOMEN?

What a curious series of assumptions.

What led you to them?

Men's preferences are not more important than protecting women's rights.

Why are you trying to shame us for not thinking safety and dignity for trans people isn't relevant or important when you don't think safety and dignity for women is relevant or important.

And WHY DOES ENSURING SAFETY AND DIGNITY FOR TRANS WOMEN REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE ACCESS TO UNCONSENTING NAKED WOMEN AND GIRLS?

I don't have all the answers either, or even any really. The problem is, if you say that any part of the answer is to allow transwomen into female space, then it is always going to have a negative impact on many of the women who also use those spaces, so that has to be a no-go

But then you have a lot of transpeople who will not accept anything less than being permitted into those spaces. So, what do you do? You seem to think it's acceptable to allow those males in, we don't. How do you square that circle?

Oh, and I don't believe anyone thinks all transpeople are predators, but some absolutely are, like many other males are, so how can women feel confident sharing spaces with them?

Males are NOT a 'minority group'.

They are the powerful sex class.

Let me rephrase Zahariel's question.
No actually it was perfect so I'll just repeat it...

WHY DOES THE "SAFETY AND DIGNITY" OF MEN WITH SAD FEELINGS REQUIRE THE PRESENCE OF UNCONSENTING NAKED WOMEN?