SAHMS ON MN

[UBIA]

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums.

On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while?

The usual excuse for the storm of reactions is about financial vulnerability. Ok, I get that. But what if they're not financially vulnerable? How would you know? Bring a SAHM might have made you financially vulnerable - but you can't extrapolate that onto everyone else.

Why do people give anecdotes about some friend or their mother who was bored / insane / husband had an affair etc? Why? This is like saying "My friend had a job but she got depressed." So what? Also, if men are going to cheat, that's what they'll do anyway. Anyone can cheat in any type of marriage.

Why do people assume SAHMs are there for housework purposes? That depends on where / how they live and if they have cleaners, just like anyone else.

Why di people tell SAHMs their marriages are not 'equal?' Equality is about mutual respect. It has nothing to do with what job you do or money.

Frequently, people will say things like," Well, after my divorce the fact I was working meant I wasn't screwed." Ok, this is good obviously, but also, that's just you. How do you know the financial circumstances of anyone else - working or not? And why do you assume people haven't factored this sort of thing in?

Dime SAHMs will be screwed after divorce, sure. But others will not be. It depends on so many factors. Just like it does for anyone who works - it's all relative and completely circumstantial.

It is very odd that in a site for mums, the only mums that seem acceptable are the ones who don't SAH! MN is not like real life at all in this respect, it's very extreme (as I read it) because I don't know anyone in real life who makes assumptions about SAHMs or who would even care about this for 3 seconds. AIBU to think MN should be more open-minded and just live and let live without all the crazy assumptions.

Also, re what @RobertaFirmino said, when I was part time - when my DC were school age - I got constantly bashed for not going full time (1990s and noughties,) when my DC were at school.

My male manager couldn't understand why I didn't go full time when my youngest hit 5, (oldest was nearly 7,) and he said 'your kids don't need you any more when they start school.' 🙄 IME they needed me MORE.

Then I had the full timers (a few mums, a few child free) who bashed me for being a 'part-timer', and ONLY doing 22.5 hours a week (though I still did more work some weeks than the 37.5 hours a week employees!)

Then I had my mum and grandmother and MIL bashing me for working at ALL, saying 'children need mummy at home.'

Then when my DC were around 10-12 ish, I finished work after being made redundant, and DH said I can stay off for a bit if I want, as he was earning enough to keep us all. So I gave up work til they were at uni (so for 6-7 years.) They LOVED me being at home all the time, and we had so much fun for those 6-7 years, day trips, beach days, exploring woodlands, going to the lakes, going for picnics, going to concerts, and going to the cinema and theatre. And THEN I got Royally slated and berated by anyone who was working, for being a 'skiver,' and a 'freeloader!' One of my cousins said she couldn't live with herself if she had to beg her DP for money, and would be embarrassed to live off him!

I never begged DH for anything, and we had a joint account!

I went back to work (as I said,) when my 2 DC were at uni, and am back in a similar role as I left, and on the same money as other people around me who never had a 6-7 year break from work!

As has been said, mothers - particularly of school age children just can't do anything right. Some people just have to bash them, no matter what they do - or don't do.

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I mean, you can dig into it all you like. Those are the meanings of the words and to pretend they aren't is just being nit-picky.

My point here stems from the fact that staying at home once the children are in school isn't needed. It leaves the women in question in a situation that very easily go very wrong very quickly. No one is denigrating these women for their choices, as you're really attempting to maintain. They're pointing out the obvious that should their husband divorce them, become abusive, become ill, or die, these women will be a bit fucked.

If there are two adults involved then there's no reason why the housework/admin can't be split between them both. That would then benefit the woman so that she isn't financially dependent on her partner.

I’m a SAHM and I don’t think like you. If a mum says I will divorce my partner and it’s good I will be ok financially as I work…it’s never ever ever crossed my mind it’s a pop at SAHMs, I see it very much as she’s ticking boxes in her head that’s she will be ok. In fact I always feel happy for them that they feel they will be ok.

i should add that my sister was a SAHM til her kids left for university (19 years at home) she’s on minimum wage and will probably stay with her DH even though she’s miserable. I changed my mind at 4 years and have a 6 figure salary from pure hard work and not giving a shit about people like her criticising me for working!!

My friend was a SAHM and then her DH died very unexpectedly when their son was 2, it left them destitute and she had to sell their house. I never wanted to put myself in that position, so I went back to Uni to study law, whilst working full-time and qualified as a lawyer. My own DH took a part-time job and together we took care of our children.

Fast forward ten years, my DH lost his job due to an accident at work. Thank goodness, I can support our family whilst my DH takes the time to get better and figures out his next career move.

I don't look down on SAHM, I think it is fabulous to be able to stay at home and take care of your children, I would have loved to be able to do this. Just don't leave yourself and your children vulnerable, anything could happen.

The whole premise of this thread seems to be to set people against each other.

Yes, and to shut the women on Mumsnet up.

I wonder if the OP would barge up to a group of people chatting in a pub, and tell them they're 'doing it wrong'.

I would say most people on here respect what other people choose to do.

There have been the odd post that infers / purports that the 'other side' is 'less than' and that's what gets people's backs up and therefore they react and tell them they are wrong.

Not really, please can you expand more on what type of women SAHMs are? Do you think they all home school and live under a metaphorical rock??

I agree with you OP, there absolutely is far more vitriol aimed at SAHMs than at WOHMs .

The posts that highlight the risks of being a SAHM aren't the issue. It's the ones that imply being a SAHM is a worthless position and a privilege and that anyone in that position just needs to suck up any bad treatment without complaining which I don't like. What baffles me is the comments about how hard life must be for their working spouse being the breadwinner and that the person who brings in the money is due some sort of special status, as though SAHMs have no concept of what it is to work for a living. All the SAHMs I know have had successful careers prior to having children. Having a job isn't a special achievement, it's normal and something that the vast majority of SAHMs also have for decades of their lives. In addition, being a SAHM isn't an easy job if you are doing it well. But there are some people here who think that if you're a SAHM then you deserve no support or help and your partner is some sort of hero.

I'm still part time by the way, even with no children at school anymore - in fact not even LIVING at home!

That gets up a few peoples noses I must admit. 😆

I’ve noticed if a SAHM moans or says she is struggling in any way then it’s like a red rag to a bull for all the mums who work outside the home and are struggling to juggle everything and think SAHMs have it easy. If you’re a SAHM apparently parenting should never be difficult because that’s all you have to focus on. Parenting is difficult full stop and most of us will struggle in some way at some point no matter what our circumstances are. People come here for support but you have to put your hard hat on if you’re going to come on here and say you’re a SAHM and you’re struggling.

It's the ones that imply being a SAHM is a worthless position and a privilege and that anyone in that position just needs to suck up any bad treatment without complaining which I don't like

It's not worthless but it is one hell of a privilege.

I was a SAHM because I believed a parent was the best person to take care of my dd because I loved her.

Working full time just so that you have a back-up plan in case your relationship fails is a pretty crap reason for sending your child to nursery when you might prefer to be with them full time and can afford to.

I don't regret it for a minute- I have peace of mind that I gave her the very best start.

Fine if you choose to work- but fine if you want to stay at home. It's very sad that women are once again losing their choices because of social pressure to work fro other women.

I've seen many threads started by SAHMs who describe various scenarios e.g. their plan to stay at home for a few years; have a high-earning husband; didn't like work; don't have a profession; no private pension; plan on further study; some have independent savings; some rely totally on husband giving them spending money, etc.

All different women with different lifestyles and incomes, and varying vague plans for the future.

Many posters chip in with helpful suggestions that they should look after their finances, plan for the future, be mindful of potential vulnerabilities as they get older. I think most are genuinely trying to be helpful.

I get the same, although mine is still at home and likes my freedom to give her lifts and run to 6th form with forgotten things...

@ShillyShallySherbet "I’ve noticed if a SAHM moans or says she is struggling in any way then it’s like a red rag to a bull for all the mums who work outside the home and are struggling to juggle everything and think SAHMs have it easy.

I've done both. Senior and high powered career for nearly 20 years. SAHP for the next 20. SAHP is a million times easier.

@GiddyRobin "My point here stems from the fact that staying at home once the children are in school isn't needed"

That is simply your opinion, no more. You can have no idea what other people have going on, or the reasons they may feel this is the best set up, on balance. There will be millions of women in this situation and no two anywhere will be the same.

It's like coming in a thread about women who work and declaring who is part-time and who is full-time and who is this and who is that. Just utter nonsense.

I was a SAHM mum for three years after I had DC1 and knew I wanted another DC with a small gap. I enjoyed those few years at home, but I much prefer being a professional again and enjoying a career combined with motherhood.

I’ve got a number of friends who didn’t ever go back to work after having children. If I’m honest, I think it’s quite lazy to be a SAHM once the kids are school age and assuming no other extenuating circumstance (like ill health, other care responsibilities, supporting a ND child etc). I don’t have as much in common any longer and have distanced myself from a few, as they’re boring with a small frame of reference that focuses nearly entirely on teenagers/dogs/horses 🥱

Goodness knows what they’re planning for “retirement” etc. Can’t really retire from doing nothing. They would be in a really sticky situation if their Hs left/died/became incapacitated.

YANBU

Posters often say their comments are out of financial concern for SAHM but I don’t buy it. What about all the FT working mums who are on low salaries? Not everyone working FT is on a high salary and able to pay all the bills on their salary if their husband walks out.

You see what you want to see.
For every post wanging on about sahms, there's one wanging on about how working mums aren't raising their own kids. 🤷.

Meanwhile the majority of posts are actually balanced and very much to each their own.

But they don't grab the attention.

I agree with this completely. We're all different. We all bring our DC in a way that suits us and our family circumstances.

I am on MN because I enjoy the conversation, the debate. I've had loads of really useful advice on here.

Yes, there are some numpties who enjoy poking a thread with a goady comment. But the majority of the posts I read are considered, respectful, sometimes blunt, supportive, or obviously out to pick a fight. I sometimes offer my advice, share my experience, involve myself in the conversation. Sometimes its far better for my sanity to hide the thread. Very much like real life - some people I get on with, find interesting, enjoy spending time with. Others aren't my cup of tea so I'll wave hello and walk on by.

Each to their own.

Why would women envy something that they have chosen not to do?

Well then, outside of issues such as disability, tell me why having one partner at home all day is important once the kids are in school? If they're cleaning, cooking, and doing life admin, those are the things that can be done by both partners outside of working hours. If the other partner isn't willing to chip in with that and behave like an adult, that's an issue.

It's a choice, but it isn't needed. No one needs to dedicate their lives to housekeeping and place themselves in a wobbly position should anything go wrong.

I don't struggle to fit in.
I have amazing friends from when I worked, and mom friends.