SAHMS ON MN

[UBIA]

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums.

On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while?

The usual excuse for the storm of reactions is about financial vulnerability. Ok, I get that. But what if they're not financially vulnerable? How would you know? Bring a SAHM might have made you financially vulnerable - but you can't extrapolate that onto everyone else.

Why do people give anecdotes about some friend or their mother who was bored / insane / husband had an affair etc? Why? This is like saying "My friend had a job but she got depressed." So what? Also, if men are going to cheat, that's what they'll do anyway. Anyone can cheat in any type of marriage.

Why do people assume SAHMs are there for housework purposes? That depends on where / how they live and if they have cleaners, just like anyone else.

Why di people tell SAHMs their marriages are not 'equal?' Equality is about mutual respect. It has nothing to do with what job you do or money.

Frequently, people will say things like," Well, after my divorce the fact I was working meant I wasn't screwed." Ok, this is good obviously, but also, that's just you. How do you know the financial circumstances of anyone else - working or not? And why do you assume people haven't factored this sort of thing in?

Dime SAHMs will be screwed after divorce, sure. But others will not be. It depends on so many factors. Just like it does for anyone who works - it's all relative and completely circumstantial.

It is very odd that in a site for mums, the only mums that seem acceptable are the ones who don't SAH! MN is not like real life at all in this respect, it's very extreme (as I read it) because I don't know anyone in real life who makes assumptions about SAHMs or who would even care about this for 3 seconds. AIBU to think MN should be more open-minded and just live and let live without all the crazy assumptions.

Some posts are balanced but there is a lot of the same nonsense on MN - the post by MillicentMama above is ubiquitous on MN, but you'd go a long way to meet someone who thinks like that in real life.

You don't know that. Everyone might be judging each other but keeping it to themselves 😅

My mum was technically a SAHM (a 'homemaker' back in the day), but that doesn't begin to cover her experiences - while Dad worked she volunteered at local community groups, was the village registrar, did the admin for Dad's business, arranged local events, was a JP. She may have been classed as a SAHM as she didn't have a paid job as such, but she was such an example of hard work to us.

Everyone's experience is different.

I’m autistic and love being a SAHM, so I suppose I fit quite well into your view of SAHMs!

However, I don’t think motherhood has given me an ‘exit out’ and I definitely don’t just ‘sit at home’, being a SAHM has been harder than most of my jobs, all of which were physically/mentally taxing! I don’t think that’s a kind or accurate thing to say about SAHMs at all.

On the flip side of that, one of the mums at school continually tells everyone she's busy working like she's the only one.

She can't do this because she's working, she earns more than her husband, tells anyone who will listen, she can't do that because she's working, and did you know, she earns more than her husband? She's a right fucking bore!

So there's bores in all walks of life.

This is the kind of thing I mean - the grass is always greener isn't it? I can't imagine the idea of going to work for a rest, or finding a delayed train relaxing when you're late for pick up, or have a meeting. I've been chair of the PTA for 3 years despite working though, and most mums run around after their family whether or not they work out of the home, so I can't really imagine those equating to a full time job.

But I guess we always assume the opposite of our own scenario is easier without truly knowing what it is like to live it.

Or the if you use a nursery strangers are bringing up your children!

I think the claims that SAHM get the same shit on here as WOHM are a bit disingenuous - Mumsnet seems very skewed towards women and mothers in the workforce so I think it follows most people will be posting from that pov. Also any SAHM threads seem attract a very persistent core of posters who go on the attack.

I'm a SAHM currently and it is the anomaly in my peer group and Ive had a lot of furrowed brows and awkward pauses - not being in paid work makes people feel weird! We live in a culture that values paid work over any other role. I don't think this is the fault of the big bad WOHM's though, women were never respected for fulfilling their traditional roles and duties in the first place. There's just an extra layer of 'dont take yourself very seriously, do you" with it now(which I would argue is more about class than anything else)

It seems pretty much evenly split here. The SAHMs and the WOHMs will often disagree. And the criticisms of SAHMs are pretty evenly matched with the criticisms of WOHMs. And most people don't judge either way. And a lot of people play both roles at different times. It's a non-issue.
There a lot of posters on MN and we don't all think the same.

This comment makes you sound a little bitter to be honest.

The general vibe of this whole website is pretty spiteful tbh. Sad women trying to knock other women down to make themselves feel better.
This isn't to say that every post has that air behind it, but i've seen a lot of posts where people mention being a SAHM (or any other completely fine way of existing) and the Judiths and Karen's hound them, although I guarantee their s*it stinks more than anyone else. It gives school gate mums who have nothing better to do than gossip.

This

Stay at home mother - you are lazy and setting a terrible example for your child

Full time working mother - you are a terrible mother abandoning your poor child

Work part time - selfish think of your poor coworkers picking up the slack

A father who picks their child up from school once in blue moon - oh isn't he a saint.

Women can't win. Let's support each other and not tear each other down

Aaah you have met my ex MIL! Yes, she’s a complete piece of work

See this is a good example of why people get a bit arsey and how the criticism works both ways.

Women who choose to work don't love their kids , bad mums send their kids to nursery, working mums kids have a bad start, women only work because of social pressure etc etc

@OneBadKitty may not actually mean to be goady - I am sure she is happy with her choices, but that's not a reason to judge other peoples.

I don't dislike SAHP - if it's a genuine choice and comes with respect and equality - it must be nice if that works for you - equally a lot of 'experience' posts come from seeing women, on here, repeatedly left in the shit when their ex fucks off - and seeing the SAHM's treated like skivvies by their partners.

I do share my experience but only in response to questions about being a SAHM or the recent thread about only finding men who can support you attractive.

BUT I do think, if you chose to be a SAHP you need to make sure you are covered if that changes - because shit happens and I made sure my daughters understand that.

Says the person using "Karen" as a term to demean other women and insinuate they should just stay quiet and keep their opinions to themselves.

So you’ve had 40 years of being a parent to young children? Or were you not a parent to young children when you had your senior and high powered career? Just curious. I think my point was that you can still find being a parent difficult when you’re a SAHM. It doesn’t always make it easier.

Women aren't choosing to work due to pressure from other women. They might like working plus those bills don't pay themselves.

Shes not insisting they agree. She's simply debating her point versus an opposing point which is a normal part of healthy disagreement.

Train delay was only good in the morning on the way to work, never on the way home! 🤣

But my point was, I feel busier now than I did before when I was working full time. It was just me and my son for a few years, I had to go back to work when he was 8 months so he went to nursery and I had family help, I was lucky. But I was a single parent for 4 years.

Then I met DH, had DD, then lost my job due to covid. Both kids are now in school but I feel busier now than I did at work.

But this just my experience. I've worked without kids, been a single, working mum, been a sahm, and now I guess, according to some, I'm just a housewife.

Are you suggesting that WOHMs don't love their children as much as you love your DD?!

@GiddyRobin - surely you can comprehend that every family is different. Does this even need saying?

Nobody needs to justify anything to anybody else. Working or not. Everyone has different options and contexts and different personalities.

To your question - Ok, so you might have five children and finally the last one starts in school. Whichever way you look at life, that is still a lot. You might have been 'a proper SAHM' (by your definition, ie with kids at home) for over ten years or longer. You may well (as a couple) decide that you still want to be there when they get home from school. This is important to you. Some jobs make that possible, but not all.

You might have a DH who works away a lot and so that 9.30 - 3pm part of the day (after you get home from drop off and before you need to set off again to various schools) may be the only 'hands free time' you've had in many years! It's very misogynistic to think women should scoot out the door and do some 'fill in' job the second all kids are in school just 'because' - when they don't actually need the money; it benefits nobody and they're run into the ground as it is with a large family. You ask why they would not do just that. I wouid reframe your question and ask why they would? Fine if the money helps or they want to - but this is not compulsory you know. There is no decree of a 'default lifestyle' that all families need to adhere to. Families function better when there is balance and people are not feeling run into the ground - especially where they don't need to be. 'Balance ' looks like different things for different families. Each to their own.

I don't dislike SAHP - if it's a genuine choice and comes with respect and equality - it must be nice if that works for you - equally a lot of 'experience' posts come from seeing women, on here, repeatedly left in the shit when their ex fucks off - and seeing the SAHM's treated like skivvies by their partners.

That’s a self-selecting sample of the ones who end up on MN up shit creek, the ones who are fine aren’t here asking for help.

Any threads that discuss going back to work, especially if we’re talking about a young child attracts the same posters talking about how nurseries raise the children, how working mothers are selfish, materialistic etc.

It goes both ways and it absolutely can be just as nasty.

A woman’s place is in the wrong.

Theres a subset of posters on here who’ll knock women regardless of their employment status. I’ve seen plenty of vitriol aimed at working mums too.

I'm not meaning to be goday- I've given the reasons for me choosing to be a SAHP- I never said WOHM parents don't love their kids or that they get off to a bad start- I said I believe the best person to care for a child is someone who loves them and that I could give my child better care, so a better start than nursery staff can!

Other people may not agree with me so are fine and believe their children will fare better in nursery that at home- that's their choice.