SAHMS ON MN

[UBIA]

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums.

On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while?

The usual excuse for the storm of reactions is about financial vulnerability. Ok, I get that. But what if they're not financially vulnerable? How would you know? Bring a SAHM might have made you financially vulnerable - but you can't extrapolate that onto everyone else.

Why do people give anecdotes about some friend or their mother who was bored / insane / husband had an affair etc? Why? This is like saying "My friend had a job but she got depressed." So what? Also, if men are going to cheat, that's what they'll do anyway. Anyone can cheat in any type of marriage.

Why do people assume SAHMs are there for housework purposes? That depends on where / how they live and if they have cleaners, just like anyone else.

Why di people tell SAHMs their marriages are not 'equal?' Equality is about mutual respect. It has nothing to do with what job you do or money.

Frequently, people will say things like," Well, after my divorce the fact I was working meant I wasn't screwed." Ok, this is good obviously, but also, that's just you. How do you know the financial circumstances of anyone else - working or not? And why do you assume people haven't factored this sort of thing in?

Dime SAHMs will be screwed after divorce, sure. But others will not be. It depends on so many factors. Just like it does for anyone who works - it's all relative and completely circumstantial.

It is very odd that in a site for mums, the only mums that seem acceptable are the ones who don't SAH! MN is not like real life at all in this respect, it's very extreme (as I read it) because I don't know anyone in real life who makes assumptions about SAHMs or who would even care about this for 3 seconds. AIBU to think MN should be more open-minded and just live and let live without all the crazy assumptions.

SAHD = cocklodger 99.9% of the time. Double standards here are interesting.

The reason SAHM get so much grief on here is because a lot come on here to say the parental load isn’t shared equally (no shit) or they aren’t happy with the financial arrangement (no shit).

I feel a bit guilty for saying this because I know I am not necessarily right in thinking this, but in the interests of being honest I'll hold my hands up and say I have probably made snippy comments on here because I perceive a sahm life to be easier than mine and I am a bit jealous that I'm run ragged between work/kids/husband working away.

I am not saying I'm right either to think that or to say anything but I bet I'm not the only one to think that. Sorry, I know that makes me sound horrible and probably says more about my state of mind! 😔

If you're at home with pre school children or school children with additional needs and you are able to be comfortable financially doing so, then that's great. If your kids are in school you're not a SAHM though and I think that's where people have an issue, that some people are choosing to be housewives, not even house wives when they don't see the housework as their responsibility, just unemployed, while looking down their nose at working mothers. It created a backlash that continues now.

"But I will continue to challenge the role of the sahm in society as I believe it contributes to sexism and the gender pay gap."

Ok, but would a society where women are forced to work at a certain time after birth, be any better? I don't think it would. That would just replace one set of issues / restrictions with another. No such thing as a perfect society.

I think you are right OP and I think it is a recent thing. Now most people stay at work after school for financial reasons but also because their employers are really flexible now. I am a dreaded SAHM - my employer was massively not flexible and I got fed up of working full time hours in my part time job. I got zero support at work and actually I really enjoy being at home and I am busy all the time. I have a professional qualification which I use in a voluntary capacity and I always help on school trips etc.. I really don't do any 'lady who lunches' type things. My youngest goes to secondary school soon and then i will go back to work. I am also thinking of retraining. It is funny - lots of friends who worked the tough years of young children are now burning out and giving up work now their children are teenagers. I think there is so much pressure on women to work and most also end up doing the majority of the domestic chores. It is too much. I am late 40s now and lots of marriages are failing but actually it is all women who seem to suffer not just the SAHMs. I would never be one without being married or having an equal partner though.

Wow, that's batshit. Isn't that what nurseries are for?!

Anyhoo @UBIA Yeah there is some hate for SAHMs on here, but as has been said, working mums get a bad rap too. As a pp said, with some people, anyone who does anything different to them is not doing it right! 😆

@RobertaFirmino · Today 15:48

SAHM - lazy sponger
FT working mum - 'How could she leave her children all day?'
PT working mum - should get FT job instead of claiming UC
Whatever a mother does, she will be criticised!

Yup. That pretty much sums it up! Mothers of young children/school age children can't do right for doing wrong.

It really isn't for you because you don't envy the SAHM life, sounds like you'd hate it. I don't think that comment was aimed at you and others like you who love their jobs. I don't sit around as a SAHM assuming people envy me, quite the opposite. I do wonder why I and others in my position get aggression or disgust etc on here sometimes though, so that's people who I think that comment was aimed at - those who actively speak against those who choose to 'stay at home'. I'm not saying they do envy me, I'm just saying that poster wasn't trying to speak for you or those in your position.

I don't think anyone is bothered about sahm tbh.

I think the dialogue that winds people up is the "how could you abandon your poor dc" which people react to by talking about the reasons they need to work or choose to work.

Absolutely this

I couldn't care less what someone else does

Pitting women against each other when the real issue is the Patriarchy with its feckless useless father's
Makes my blood boil,women are bashed for everything with being a single mother top of the heap, imagine working and being responsible, bringing up your DC but criticised whilst feckless absent fathers just walk away
😤
And breathe

I am not forcing anyone to do anything. But we need more men to step up and take paternity leave and be stay at home dads. There needs to be a culture shift.

We need cheaper childcare so women don’t give up work due to finances. Then women can achieve better salaries and retain power in the workplace and be taken seriously. And not end up with less earning potential when the kids leave home and crap pensions. And they can show the next generation that true equality is possible.

Too many men do the bare minimum at home with child-rearing and domestic duties. We are still so far off where we need to be as a society. It is still often assumed that the mother will give up work and stay home. A sexist assumption.

I don't know whether the OP is male or female but the whole finger wagging telling off they're giving MNetters here, smacks of someone telling women they're 'doing Mumsnet wrong'.

They seem to have taken nothing onboard and their assumption that Mumsnet is for mums rather than parents, just smacks of them trying to silence the women here.

Thankfully people are free to post whatever they like on this site, as long as it's within talk guidelines.

There's just as much shite about working parents.

Women love to judge other women.

Some women are insecure about their own choices and try to validate themselves by putting others down.

I do see where you're coming from. But I would wonder how the poster knows anyone she's directing the comment at feels this way? I'm sure there might well be some mums out there who would envy a SAHM. But her statement seems to be directed to any working mum who might be cynical of a SAHM/housewife set-up. The working women I know, and most who write on here, aren't jealous. They just have very valid reasoning behind why they think it's a precarious situation to put one's self in, and enjoy working and financial independence.

Well I have seen some derogatory comments recently but to be fair it was on a thread started by a SAHM who wanted to say how attracted she is to men who were wealthy enough to support her (so she didn’t need to work). I thought she had her arse handed to her and I wasn’t surprised. I personally don’t care what other parents do and I wouldn’t start a thread about it but if someone starts with “ I feel so sorry for you having to work” ( as she stated) I might be tempted to respond in a fairly robust way. So I think the whole “ why are you all so mean to SAHM” might need some re-evaluation.

Ok, but would a society where women are forced to work at a certain time after birth, be any better? this exists already, under Universal Credit

I think a husband who would replace me for a younger model because I'd stepped out of my career is a husband worth losing!

In all seriousness though I can see that happening to me - may well have happened anyway whether or not I kept my career, but it does of course add to a massive divergence of the ways in some aspects. Either way it wouldn't change the choices I've made. If he leaves me that's his choice, I can't really influence that, beyond working on our relationship when it needs it.

The thing that bothers me most is the need people feel to judge others life choices when they don't harm anyone else - why? Why can't someone be around the house, sorting out admin or gardening or whatever while the kids are at school - who is it actually hurting to make that choice? I hated the 9-5 (more like 8-7 on an average day in my case) but my husband loves it. Loves his job, it gives him drive and purpose and interest. I've always been a bit dreamy, fairly undriven, happy to be on my own schedule. I've always worked hard in a job and I'm always busy at home, but even if I wasn't, what is inherently wrong with that choice?

It is still often assumed that the mother will give up work and stay home. A sexist assumption.

I think this is often fuelled by women being the drivers behind wanting kids, with many men at best ambivalent. A “You want them, you look after them” approach.

I do point out in threads like this that when they remain at home (and become housewives not SAHMs) following their children going to school

I saw this on another thread and pondered on it then. For clarity, then- do WOHMs cease to be WOHMs when their children go to school? Surely they would just be workers?

And what about when the children of WOHMs are at nursery? Does it apply then?

And if this is correct, can one assume that both sorts (WOHM and SAHM) revert to their earlier roles when their children leave school each day?

Because otherwise it would seem like a pretty ridiculous statement designed to denigrate the role of the stay at home mother. Which, I think, would fall into the kind of category that the OP is referring to.

"A SAHM is someone who is at home bringing up children. If there are no children at home to bring up, then she is no longer a SAHM. She's just a parent. If her day consists of cleaning and doing household duties, she is a housewife."

Once again though - this is about your need to categorise women. It has little bearing on reality or anything that actually matters (in practice) because every family is different. If you have several kids, it's not as if they all go to school at the same time, is it? It can take years. And then, when they are all finally at school, maybe they are all in different schools? Maybe you want to pick them up and you don't need to do some 'fill the day in job' between 10am and 3pm because you can think of quite enough to do as it is! It's irrelevant if someone thinks you're a housewife or any other term because you're just getting in with whatever you need to do and it's your family and your life and you know best.

Your categorisations can have nothing to do with housework either because everyone has a different attitude and approach to that anyway, working or not. Eg. someone who works may do housework non stop when at home whereas SAHMs / housewives may do relatively little because they have cleaners / husbands who do more / less kids / less pets / just don't care.

I know what you mean op but there is criticism of working mums on here too so it is a thing that definitely goes both ways sadly.

I'm a sahm and I don't judge either choice 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it's either

1. Jealousy. They'd like to but can't / partner won't agree / they're worried about taking the leap.
2. Sense of superiority. Their way is best, anyone else is wrong.
3. Benefits. They don't want to pay benefits to people to stay home with their kids.

But it goes both ways. I've read comments about "I don't work because I want to raise my own children" etc., "children need to be with their mom until X age or else" etc.

by the same token, why would we assume that a SAHM is aware of her vulnerabilities? Not everyone is. Not everyone sees the bigger picture.

And in my experience, posts by SAHM are full of 'oh, I couldn't possibly allow someone else to bring up my child' judgemental shite as well.

Well it’s a forum so people sign up for hearing others‘ opinions!!
i personally don’t give a rat‘s arse what another woman chooses - the sad nature of it is though, is that so many women who have made themselves vulnerable are the ones that post. Thus inevitably a majority will say, well that’s a self-inflicted issue. And it is. Women who care about other women want to encourage them not to make mistakes like this.

In actual fact, I was a SAHM for 4 years and thought a lot about it due to posters on here. Got myself back to work and now am divorced 12 years later (it was a 20+ year marriage so not a flash in the pan) and I have a healthy salary and my own stability due to doing so. Without MN I may not have been.

The whole premise of this thread seems to be to set people against each other.

If you're happy as a sahm, great but to be fair mn has made me aware of some potential risks I hadn't really considered. It also means you're reliant on your partner stepping up financially.

If you're happy as a wohm, great but it can be hard juggling and getting partners to equally share the load plus compromises to be made about how you use your time off.

PT has its own advantages and disadvantages.

We're mostly all muddling through as best we can but it's important to go into each situation with awareness of the risks and an eye in the future.

I work because I want to, not because I have to.

I don't resent SAHMs though, nor am I mean about them. I just file that life under "Good for her, not for me".