SAHMS ON MN

[UBIA]

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums.

On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while?

The usual excuse for the storm of reactions is about financial vulnerability. Ok, I get that. But what if they're not financially vulnerable? How would you know? Bring a SAHM might have made you financially vulnerable - but you can't extrapolate that onto everyone else.

Why do people give anecdotes about some friend or their mother who was bored / insane / husband had an affair etc? Why? This is like saying "My friend had a job but she got depressed." So what? Also, if men are going to cheat, that's what they'll do anyway. Anyone can cheat in any type of marriage.

Why do people assume SAHMs are there for housework purposes? That depends on where / how they live and if they have cleaners, just like anyone else.

Why di people tell SAHMs their marriages are not 'equal?' Equality is about mutual respect. It has nothing to do with what job you do or money.

Frequently, people will say things like," Well, after my divorce the fact I was working meant I wasn't screwed." Ok, this is good obviously, but also, that's just you. How do you know the financial circumstances of anyone else - working or not? And why do you assume people haven't factored this sort of thing in?

Dime SAHMs will be screwed after divorce, sure. But others will not be. It depends on so many factors. Just like it does for anyone who works - it's all relative and completely circumstantial.

It is very odd that in a site for mums, the only mums that seem acceptable are the ones who don't SAH! MN is not like real life at all in this respect, it's very extreme (as I read it) because I don't know anyone in real life who makes assumptions about SAHMs or who would even care about this for 3 seconds. AIBU to think MN should be more open-minded and just live and let live without all the crazy assumptions.

I think it’s just a bit frustrating people automatically assume you’re relying on a man for finances when you say you’re a SAHM or that you’re not independent?

I had a good job with a good salary and when we were “dinks” saved a lot, I had equity in a company that paid out very well which means we’re mortgage free and have savings. I don’t consider myself to be living off my husband, our financial situation is the way it is because of me. Over the course of our relationship I’ve contributed more to our overall pot; he’ll catch up in a few years but I expect I’ll be back at work by then as my son will be at school.

I think being a SAHM mum is easier than my job ever was, but I have one chilled out son and I genuinely enjoy his company. I’m not sure we’ve ever really had a “bad” day but I’d frequently cry after a day at work. Now he’s 3 he goes to nursery for 2 days a week and the time he’s there is my leisure time, I’d never have that if I was working and I really consider it a luxury. I was checking emails and working during all annual leave and weekends pre having a child. Before nursery though you had no time to yourself but I’d still take that over working. Anyway, a lot of it for me comes down to the fact I really didn’t enjoy my job and I found it really stressful, so spending the day with my child is the fun option. I’d probably be saying something else if I had more than 1 pre school age child who were high needs and had a fairly easy job (in fact someone once said to me they went to work for a break and my first thought was wow they either have really difficult kids or an easy job!!!)

What would happen if your DH decided he would like the leisure time at home rather than going to work?

Because some exceptions doesn’t make that assumption incorrect in the vast majority of cases.

@Parker231 then that would be fine, we’d be fine financially if he wanted to take time out now or drop to part time hours. When nearing the end of my mat leave I said I didn’t fancy going back, we discussed us both going part time but he enjoys his job and he has a specific career goal he wants to get to by the time he’s 40 which he’s working towards, imagine he’ll take a sabbatical after he’s reached that! I’m quite sure he doesn’t begrudge me having 2 days in the week. I don’t have those same work ambitions, plus did well early on in my career, so it’s not like we’d be in trouble if he lost his wage. But anyway as I said, if he wanted the leisure time that’s fine, he could do that straight away if he wanted and he could have said that at any point in the last 3 years. If it got to a point we couldn’t afford it we’d look at it together and find something that works for us both.

@SouthLondonMum22 fair enough, I don’t know everyone’s financial situations and tbh I know few stay at home mums- the ones I do know were all big earners so I assumed they had their own £ before making the decision to stop working.

What works for one family, doesn’t another

@UBIA three kids going through independent school clearly shows money has never been an issue. No skin off my nose (although I'd love to be able to be in such a financial position, but accept I'm not!) but people on MN can get very emotional about money, which is understandable in today's climate. This sometimes results in resentment, jealousy etc of the more privileged SAHMs.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Being a SAHM is a perfectly fine choice to make if you can afford it and want to do it and there are upsides but it comes with significant financial risk (and social risk).

Out of curiosity, what social risk?

Personally I think SAHMs are letting the side down. Women are capable of more than child rearing and house work and women going out and achieving things and being doctors or lawyers or whatever shows their daughters what they can be and that they are not limited to house work. We didn't fight for equality to stay at home we fought for it to have our place at the table. A moment that always sticks in my mind is asking a SAHMs friends daughter what she wanted to be when she grew up, expecting her to say astronaut or vet or whatever like kids usually do, she said "you don't have to have a job if you don't want one and I don't want one" I was go smacked. We should be showing our girls what they can be not teaching them that aspirations are optional.

Of course then the SAHM judgement of oh god I can't believe you leave your precious children don't you love them enough to stay with them? Why have them then get someone else to look after them!? It really brings home the fact that these women are judgemental and small minded. There's a whole world out there, go and engage in it and influence it! Show your children what they can do! Lead by example!

I wouldn't come straight out and tell a SAHM what I think of them unprovoked but oh so often they provoke it by feigning horror that I send my child to nursery and I'm a terrible mum for doing so so then I tell them what I think of their choices.

I've never been a SAHM (unless you count Maternity Leave) and I'm a big fan of nursery, but I think you're maybe glorifying what the average working Mum does. Most of us aren't doctors or lawyers, we're accounts payable assistants or compliance officers or some other job which involves assisting the economy moving around people who have lots of money already. I'm not going to change the world or inspire a generation of confident women with my work. I wouldn't say, on the average day, I find my work fulfilling or exciting. If I could afford to, I'd happily be a SAHM, even though DD is in school. I could go to the gym, focus on my health and wellbeing more, maybe do some volunteering- all of which is probably more inspiring to DD than watching me log on to my computer every morning, ping emails around, and take a few Teams calls. You can be a good example to your daughters (and sons) without having someone pay you to shuffle money about.

If work is unfulfilling and uninspiring then that is a different story but I grew up watching my mum go to work (medicine) and saving lives. I was in awe of her and it I got my determined and drive from watching her do that. She set the bar and I followed.

If work is boring and nothing more than a pay check to you maybe it won't be that inspiring but I believe it's part of our responsibility as a citizen to work and out money into the national pot. For the economy to run we all have to contribute so that those that cannot contribute (the sick and the elderly) can be cared for. If there aren't enough people putting in this doesn't work anymore. As we are seeing currently when large numbers of working she adults are economically inactive services suffer. We want our children to have health care, education, have a pension when we're old, well we need to pay for it. Responsibility is boring but it's an important lesson for our children to learn. If the only example work is setting to your children is showing them how to be a responsible citizen that is active in the workings of society then it is worthwhile.

If all women stopped working when they had children the economy would collapse and all our services would grind to a halt because the teachers, medics, bankers etc.just decided they weren't going to do it anymore and there wouldn't be enough tax revenue to run them anyway. It's important that doesn't happen, and children need to know that.

Well said, and I totally agree with you, but you are going to get your gizzards fried and your arse handed to you for having the audacity to say it!!

I never had any desire to stay at home. I'd do anything else for my children and have done all my life, but I've never been the type of mum to do crafting, and mess around with painting, glue and glitter. I didn't achieve at school and complete two degrees plus postgrads to walk away from the world of work. And I am good at what I do.

I was at home with my kids every evening, and every weekend. I never left them to go away without them until the eldest was in their teens. They had access to every possible activity that they wanted to do. They travelled and had experiences, went away to uni, studied abroad, you name it. They are all still very close to us in their 20s so I think I did a pretty fucking awesome job without crawling the floor building Lego!

I've never noticed any of the vitriol you describe towards SAHMs.
Or working Mums for that matter.

Every situation is unique and commented on a such.

Maybe I'm thick.

Women really do hate each other in ways that men don't.

Agree - there’s plenty of hate out there for women and it’s not just coming from the male of the species.

No point pretending society hasn’t set an increasingly crappy example of the supposed joys of parenthood and the future of the species, given the growing numbers of women who would rather not have any children at all for whom to have to set an example. So many women set idiotic standards for other women one way or the other and appear desperate to look down on anyone who does not share their rigid world view.

Personally I think SAHMs are letting the side down

Goodness me. What a sanctimonious load of twaddle. The only people who are 'letting the side down' are the judgemental ones like yourself, @PaganPollyanna

There is no inherent superiority to be found on any 'side' WOHM/SAHM/ptWOHM- whatever your set up, we're all equally valid and equal contributors to society. Our forebears fought for us to have equality of choice, as much as anything else. I'd say they didn't fight for the opportunity to tear other women down for the choices they make.

I'm a proper 1970s radical feminist and very proud of what we've achieved. One thing I think we got wrong though, was not realising the significance of child raising/child care. If we thought about it at all, I think we assumed that there would be free 24 hour nurseries.

@PaganPollyanna - You have resurrected a ZOMBIE THREAD simply to bitch about SAHMs.

Feel better about yourself now? I doubt it.

I think you need to focus on whatever is making YOU so miserable in your own life.

What had driven you to the point where you're scrolling MN for random SAHM threads at 00.09 on a Monday morning?

Maybe find a therapist or life coach. Good luck.

“For the economy to run we all have to contribute so that those that cannot contribute (the sick and the elderly) can be cared for.“

That’s all well and good but also young children can’t contribute to the economy and need caring for.

I'm not miserable 😂 my life is great 😃

I'm up feeding my baby at 00.09 in the morning and the thread was suggested at the bottom of another thread I was reading. Try harder!

That's a strange argument. A family with one working parent earning £50k and one SAHP pays a lot more tax than a 2 parent household, each earning £25k. The gap gets even bigger if you have one parent earning £80k vs 2 earning £40k. A SAHP is also not eligible for State Pension so will be reliant on the working parents' income in old age.

I think I may have stated further up in this thread that I do not think you should be able to choose to be a SAHP and claim benefits to fund that choice.

Some people really love their jobs but if we're being honest, most people do it for the pay check. I don't work because I want to inspire my daughter, I work because I like having enough money to lead a comfortable life without worrying about every penny I spend.

@PaganPollyanna - those who are most miserable and insecure in life are always those who feel a need to put others down. Especially while breastfeeding a baby past midnight!

This is a simple fact of life - we see it time and time again. Think about your need to try to put other women down. Does it make you feel better somehow? Can you put your finger in why or how? If you want to be a better role model for your baby, I'd take time to reflect on that. Think more flexibly .

We have a different view of feminism @PaganPollyanna. I thought women fought for the freedom to choose our destiny and not be limited by anyone else’s view of what a woman should be. Yet here you are deciding how other women should live their lives in the name of feminism.

I am not insecure. I am very secure in my world views and find the constant claims of misery from people who disagree with me tedious. When you disagree with other peoples behaviour or world views is it always because you feel insecure? If it's perhaps you need to have some introspection. Is it inconceivable to you that some people just don't agree with other peoples decisions and choices because of the effect on society?

If you were secure in your world view you wouldn't be so upset by a random strangers opinion that you needed to psychoanalyse them and decide they must be unhappy when they disagree with your views.

I don't feel the need to put people down on a regular basis but the thread was asking why do people dislike SAHMs on MN. I gave my opinion. That's it. It's not that deep.

I pass the endless night feeds away by reading Mumsnet because it's low effort on the brain in the early hours and keeps me awake so I don't fall asleep on her. Should I be reading war and peace instead at midnight?

My daughter will be just fine growing up watching her mum strive for and achieve things showing her all the possibilities the world has waiting for her, but thank you for your concern.

Good day!